'Unprecedented Mass Deployment' of Warplanes Across Atlantic Fuels Fears of US War on Iran | Common Dreams

Healthcare at a reasonable cost you say?

Count me out in.

A leader who isn't a complete fucking moron?

Also count me in.

You'd have to hit wall st and silicone valley at the same time.

If I woke up to discover that all of DC was a smoldering crater and those countries all offered us protected refugee status under Canada’s leadership, the strangest part would be living through world-changing history and having a GOOD feeling about it for once.

Just got back home from getting my MRI. IT band syndrome in both of my knees, no tears or degeneration. I feel much better after hearing that!

My knees are both still kind of sore but at least I know why now lol

I'll start physio and maybe get some better shoes and then hopefully I'll be as good as new.

USian here who is also getting an MRI tomorrow. Fun coincidence and I wish you well on your alien abduction simulator!

The fortunate thing for you and me, and the unfortunate thing for humanity as a whole, is that daily life in the US is generally pleasant and undisturbed by brutal overseas military actions.

That’s a general theme of this place though. The country is massive and geographically isolated/protected while the military is spread all over the world doing shit all the time.

Americans in a nutshell

US is about to go to war the day before I go down to the states to get an MRI, lovely.

edit: So idiots are excited about wars, but I'm also an idiot for not being excited about wars? Fair enough then, I can't win.

Yeah it's a clickbait site for people who think they're too smart to fall for clickbait.

Yeah and the little green men that showed up in Crimea in 2014 definitely had nothing to do with Russia! That's what Russia said and we all believed them, right?

Are you pretending Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthis are not Iranian proxies or are you actually that uninformed about these things? Iran regularly calls them their "Axis of Resistance" if you didn't know. Iran's proxies have been definitely attacking Israel for a long time.

How long can Iran have to send endless waves of Arabs to die as canon fodder before someone puts a stop to it? All of the Arab countries are too authoritarian and corrupt to do anything about Iran, so here we are.

How come your analysis of escalation only includes enemy states of the USA? Escalation has happened already twice because of Israel, and the US literally threatened to invade Greenland and Canada, and is considering joining a war against Iran.

Ways that could escalate:

• Iran finishes a nuke (or get one from somewhere [or use some other form of WMD]) and the regime decides to go out with a bang

• China using the moment of distraction to try something funny with Taiwan

• A new wave of international terrorism after the regime falls

So, even if that doesn't escalate up to full on WWIII there is enough shit on the horizon to be worried

Wonder if they are on the way to liberate Greenland?

No, Israel is at war with Iran, not the other way around. Don't try and Ukraine invaded Russia this shit. They're in violation of international law and should be unanimously and globally condemned like the sick rabid little terrorist state they are.

They have nukes by the way. And we're apparently A-OK with that! Fuck the USA for enabling that infected boil on humanity's progress.

Yeah, I should have placed parenthesis around infantry.

Right. This could ultimately increase the median intelligence level....

Yes we do. Maybe they'll blow themselves up.

Grunt infantry is redundant

Eh, maybe cav scout or something in the 92 family (NOT 92R), we don’t want those asshats walking around with an M4/203 and frags.

Nah they'll just cry on tiktok about how they "never expected this at all" so that people feel sorry for them. Even though they fucked everyone around them.

It's not even hard to look this up, or maybe I already have the context having loved the 90s history channel. Vietnam had majority support for the first few years. But it was one of the first conflicts that was widely televised. Americans had never so quickly seen how fucked up war was, so support dropped off quickly. Weapons were also becoming a lot more fucked up during this time as well, adding to the visual horror.

I don't personally know, but as far as I could tell, people in the USA were largely ok with the Vietnam war, until they started to draft people to send to Vietnam who never wanted to be in a military.

I don't know, I'm neither american nor old enough. However, since it was a different time and, as you so brilliantly told, the propaganda machine was at its summum. So there is no way to know how **really** unpopular things were. However, looking at the civil rights movement and the hippie era that was happening et the same time, we could conclude that it could have been more unpopular.

Don't forget that the majority of trump voters are in favor of a war, particularly against a country they have seen as an enemy for a very long time - not forgetting the fact that it is also a muslim country, of which they are very biaised against.

You could say that there are no fundamental differences between the iranian government and the one they are willing to implement on US soil, except the fact that they are both centered around two different religions, however similar might their doctrines be.

To Trump voters, however, those words don't have any weight as, again, iranians are seen as an enemy of the so-called freedom. That makes this war quite popular by essence.

But was it in the beginning? I’m not old enough to remember what it was like when it started but clearly there was a lot of propaganda. The unpopularity seemed to manifest over time, as there was no goal and people dying over something most americans didn’t care about.

Or at least that’s my impression.

>This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

>

>-- The Onion, 2003

Are the bombs working? No. Are we going to keep bombing them? Yes.

>

_-- President Biden on Operation Prosperity_

So what's the game plan, they're going to bomb Iran into submission? That strategy has never worked in the history of warfare. They'd need boots on the ground and direct US involvement. And even then, this didn't work in Afghanistan, nor Iraq.

I think Trump is attempting to scare Iran into accepting his nuclear deal.

Israel wouldn't tolerate any deal though. They want no deal and permanent sanctions on Iran. Besides, we are well past talking about any nuclear deal.

That's basically Bibi's strategy. :(

I doubt anyone in power is deluded enough to think they can actually reinstate the Shah or something. They probably just want to bomb every piece if infrastructure in Iran and not worry about them for a few decades.

But regime change absolutely is the fantasy they are trying to sell liberals.

I don't know if he's serious about regime change in iran. He seems to negotiate from a raft of threats and lies. Hopefully it's all for show but if the war does go down my guess for approval ratings is over 60%. Not quite Bush I or ii numbers due to decline in news consumption.

It was perceived that he was losing the war and lying to the public about the successes that they claimed to have achieved.

But winning wars, even unjust ones, always gets the president brownie points in the eyes of the public and corporations

The consent manufacturing machine will rev up like it always does. There's already attempts to get us on board with a the fantasy of a regime change. As though that won't lead to another ISIS or Libya.

But I really don't think the average liberal boomer is going to fall in line behind Trump like they did Bush. And certainly not anyone younger. Dem leadership is probably already on board though.

Bingo. Plus if it drags on, he can attempt to stay in power because there's a war.

the exception was covid, there was a huge downturn in recruitments, and they were getting worried. but military propaganda: top gun maverick helped boost numbers up. also the fact that they loosen some restrictions to join the military too. i was in a forum of people joining, during the obama years, and it was getting tougher to join. its mostly due to medical conditions that prevent people from joining.

It also isn't true. LBJs approval rating absolutely tanked because of the Vietnam war.

Johnson's approval ratings had dropped from 70 percent in mid-1965 to below 40 percent by 1967

https://millercenter.org/president/lbjohnson/foreign-affairs

This might sound insane but every single wartime president has gotten a huge boost to their approval ratings due to media networks circulating pure propaganda nonstop. Even NPR will start doing positive coverage.

Vietnam was pretty unpopular tbh.

It is clear that Israel want this war. And they clearly can't do anything without the US and the UK at least. However, they commited insane genocidal attack in Gaza which might have been part of their plans to provoke a reaction that justify a war against Iran.

When that didn't work and Trump made a deal with the Houthis in Yemen without their knowledge and was close to a deal with Iran they pulled the plug and basically put the US government under a situation where the have to join their war sooner or later eventhough it is not a good time for the US to do it.

lets imagine Trump administration just gone. Any other adminstration have a few options:

• play a defensive rule, which cannot last for long as Iran have the means to a long term missile attacks, and Israel being small and there is a few main cities that can be targeted. Along with cost which will run their budgets down.

• stop supporting Israel, which will make their allies nation to reach to China or Russia for guarantee protection and the US will lose its defense credibility.

• forcing a ceasefire, which is impossible and Israel keep violating all their ceasefires. As they would like to the war to happen they will force it through escalation.

Along with the fact that Israel own the Congress, the Senate, and the US administration based on how many officials visit Israel and publicly endorsed by AIPAC, there are literally no other option.

The question now is how to make sure it is a popular war, it seems like they were trying to do it by the 6 day mark but couldn't. The US government has two part, Zionist and MAGA supremacist, and the MAGA supremacist don't want to be controlled by Jewish people and it feel as this is what stopping the US from joining now.

Most likely, they came to the conclusion that they will have to stage a false flag attack on US bases or assets to make it easier for the public to accept this war. This has been publicly stated by AIPAC speakers through out the years before 9/11, where now it feels more like a false flag as Benjamin Netanyahu keep mentioning "New York will be next".

$$$

Without war, American capitalist hegemony cannot sustain itself. It's so sickening..

I think Trump is attempting to scare Iran into accepting his nuclear deal. The only problem with this tactic is that Iran might not believe him as they know how deeply unpopular the war would be.

"Thank you sir, may I have another!"

Retail traders beg to differ though and are doing as they're told.

I think RATM had something to say about your last 4 words

The worst part of anti-war music is that it never stops being relevant. Blast off! It's party time!

Operation Desert Shield, redux, again. Hey at least the music of the era is relevant again

https://youtu.be/VI3C6MROOvY

Yeah... Bad headline; this is completely precedented.

Thank you.

For A-10s theres probably 4 active squadrons, 2 national guard, 1 reserve

74th (Georgia), 75th (Georgia), 354th (Fairbanks), 190th (Boise national guard), 107th (michigan) is in Afghanistan

45th/47th reserve, not sure

They are phasing all A-10s out and replacing with other aircraft, f-16s for the 25th.

25th has a great insignia:


https://www.ang.af.mil/Media/Article-Display/Article/4146237/idaho-air-national-guards-fighter-wing-deploys/

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/a10-warthogs-middle-east-houthis/#%3A%7E%3Atext=The+troops+and+aircraft%2C+flown%2Cby+fighter+jets+and+bombers.

The news community over at Hexbear.net made abundant analysis of this

Also indicates complete air superiority in guessing Israel has removed a fair amount of threat

Where are those informations diskussed?

If the information was out in March then Lemmy as a whole is not good at filtering the relevant news.

that's not even in the list of things I'd consider giving a fuck about

It'll just change to TOCO, Trump Occasionally Chickens Out

Only for a day

It's not a war, it's a special military operation.

What do you mean? Israel is doing Russia a solid for some reason?

Also, nothing has been redirected yet. It takes a while for stuff to move through the military supply chain and into the hands of Ukrainian forces, or Israeli ones, and even then you'd need the US to pass different funding legislation.

No, we've heard they have some kinda enriched stuff, some centrifuges and could maybe someday have a bomb for decades. It's a bit less theoretical now, they've been gradually enriching more and more since the US broke off the agreement):

In February 2023, the IAEA reported having found uranium in Iran enriched to 84%. The Iranian government has claimed that this is an "unintended fluctuation" in the enrichment levels, though the Iranians have been openly enriching uranium to 60% purity, a breach of the 2015 nuclear deal. In 2024, Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian expressed interest in reopening discussions with the United States on the nuclear deal.

They have a significant amount, too, and if I were them I would be hiding it carefully in non-obvious places where it can't be buried by an airstrike.

That's the same talking point we've heard for decades but even US intelligence reports have said the opposite, even earlier this year. I'm sure they could create dirty bombs but that only requires nuclear power plant waste.

Posturing is what Iran does. They've done that at least since the early 90s. But US intelligence services have repeatedly come to the conclusion that Iran is not ramping up production, at least based on the briefs even from a few months ago earlier this year.

Reciprocal nukes like Trump's reciprocal tariffs.

Hasn't Iran been talking about ramping up nuclear weapons production since like the end of last year? I don't think they're actually a nuclear capable nation but I could see them posturing like they are

Iran or Iran's splinter states. They have several bombs worth of uranium that's *almost* ready.

I doubt the US would get involved, and nobody else is going to for sure.

Who is exchanging nukes in that? Israel and who else?

He also said if he was president there'd be no more wars, so this obviously totally super duperly cannot happen.

This comment will age poorly if he don't.

He openly calls service members suckers and losers. I dont know that he much cares whats done with them.

Yeah, it seems fairly impossible he'll get fully into the war, and even lending a few bunker busters would be surprising when that's risking a blowback on American forces.

I would guess that Trump is expecting Khamenei to cave, because that's what he'd do. Most likely, he won't, Trump will be confused, and this will drag on and on until a regional nuclear exchange is on the table.

Yeah, the US empire sadly won't be pulling out its bases from the EU anytime soon. I wish it did, though

And you do know Taco Don had a massive meltdown and told everyone the US won’t be having bases in Europe any more.

To a point where personnel in Rammstein base cancelled plans on buying houses in the city.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-considering-proposal-cut-thousands-troops-europe-officials-sa-rcna199603

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/03/02/us-troops-europe-trump-russia/

Huh? You do know that the US has bases in Europe since WW2 right?

I mean, that's just on brand for him. If anything, he has shown a talent for bankrupcy.

No im saying iran does the good version of the 'incredibly baroque luxury' shit trump kind of shittily imitates. Iranian culture has the not-entirely-tacky-shit version of that.

And yeah, imperialism sucks.

he loves russia more.

Please, don't talk like that of Iranian culture. Iran was well on its way towards progressivism, secularism and ending absolute monarchy during the early 1950s, under the presidency of Mosaddegh. This implied developing the country and Iran profiting from its own oil, instead of giving all the profits to British Petroleum, so the US and UK did a military economic embargo of Iran, and staged a coup that reinstated the Shah. Iran could be a perfectly progressive and developed country today if it weren't for the west destroying every country that attempts to take control of its own future.

Ueah. Yeah its pretty fucked.

The shitty thing is: this mother fucker woild *love* iranian culture. It's super good at all the shit he fakes like gold plated shit.

🌮

I was a teenager during the 80s.

My family lived across the Red River from Barksdale AFB, not a far drive at all. Barksdale is a SAC base, and a known target for Soviet missiles. Our plan at the time was if we had enough notice that the missiles were actually falling, we'd get in the cars and drive as close as possible to Barksdale so we could, hopefully, be vaporized.

No. You do not want to live in a world post global nuclear conflict. If it comes down to that, I will see myself out.

Hoard stuff that you want to actually eat

Don't ask me for tips.

I'd probably just kill myself, I wouldn't have the will to live.

I hope reincarnation is real and I get to be born in an advanced post-scarcity civillization somewhere out there in the universe/multiverse where I can enjoy hundreds orntousands of years being a captain of a starship just mapping the universe.

Unfotunately, that's just me daydreaming, its too far fetched to be real.

(Okay maybe get some ham radios and some portable ones, stored in an EM-Shielded container with some solar panel batteries? Communication might be important. But, ask yourself: do you really want to live in a nuclear apocalypse?)

Learn high-density home gardening and safe food preservation. That said, white rice *does* store a long time so it's a good thing to hoard if you're worried about food availability.

Any tips? Like do I hoard rice, beans, sugar, spices, things I can trade with other people?

Should I get a pro-grade slingshot, maybe a bow and arrow?

When you are 0/2 why go for 3.....

Its a skit from The Whitest Kids You Know, "Are we going to war with Iran"

It's basically a youtube link, just switch instance or you can try replacing inv.nadeko.net with youtube.com

\>Error: access denied: denied by administrative rule

Awesome.

Clearly moon bears being transported.

Congress has the power to declare war

That they fully abdicated with the 2001 AUMF, which they keep renewing specifically so they don't have to ever make these decisions.

This is what people voted for

The people vote for candidates, not policies. And they candidates they vote for routinely talk out of both sides of their mouths. NDAAs regularly pass with overwhelming bipartisan support, even as a super-majority of Congresscritters campaign against this or that component of them.

Vote better next time, I guess.

I was told to VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO because there is a Cheeto In The White House. If both major parties field pro-war candidates, what's the move?

But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn’t significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter). Its all the same neoconservative think tanks writing variations on Project For A New American Century for the modern government.

That isn't congress or the president. Pentagon leadership doesn't declare war. Congress has the power to declare war which hasn't happened for some time and since then the president has basically done so, although arguable that it's been a "formal" declaration of war.

This is what people voted for, up and down the ballot. US voters put Trump at the top and yes men in the house and senate.

Vote better next time, I guess.

But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn’t significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter).

That's not strictly true. Trump purged a lot of leadership that was loyal to the Constitution rather than personally to him.

But your overall point about the war-hawkishness remains valid.

Nah, a war in the middle east is normal. Nobody would accept a normal situation as justification to cancel elections.

So, the SCOTUS ruled the feds control who is on the ballots in each state, right?

There is no such thing as a federal ballot.

So, Donald wasn't allowed to appear on the Colorado ballot, being an insurrectionist?

I mean the republican lawmakers, not the citizens.

I mean, Trump just illegally deployed the national guard and the marines in California. He needed the state’s permission (which he didn’t get) to deploy the guard and deploying the marines is on a whole other level of illegal.

We've got an election in NYC right now, with a pro-Palestine Muslim threatening to upset Trump's close friend Andrew Cuomo. Weird that nobody is claiming this election is being threatened by Trump, given that NYC has an enormous stock of Trump/Kushner accumulated capital.

What happens when the federal and state government disagree?

*looks at US history book at 1860*

👀

Or 50x the chances for hijinx, depending on your angle.

Not anymore. The SCOTUS ruled already that they must accept have their ballots approved by the Feds, and feds can overrule their ballots.

Unfortunately the republican run states will bend over whenever Trump tells them to.

I always thought Trump could curtail democratic elections without the excuse of war ... by relying on a convenient terrorist attack instead.

Everyone knew he wasn't going to be able to curtail democratic elections without the excuse of a war. This is on schedule.

No US president is a peace dove. Between supporting proxie wars to police actions to declared war, they all end up getting people killed by bombs.

No.

We had a lot of "I'm willing to make deals with anyone" rhetoric from the Trump campaign that low-info voters took to mean he was anti-war.

But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn't significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter). Its all the same neoconservative think tanks writing variations on Project For A New American Century for the modern government.

The idea that you were going to elect an anti-war president went out the window during the primaries. Vanishingly few federal office holders have shown opposition to attacking Iran. Less than what we had in 2003 against Iraq.

Everyone from Richie Torres to Mike Lee seem on board with a brand new Holocaust in the Middle East.

~~Yes, and the OP article is talking about tankers going across the Atlantic. So these are two separate things. (Maybe related things, but neither article connects the two)

I personally found no source relating then, but I may not know what to search for.~~

Edit: I see now that the OP did list those as airbase where tankers landed after crossing the Atlantic.

read the article

"Over the past hours, at least 20 tankers took off from various bases across Europe—including Prestwick (UK), Morón (Spain), and Ramstein (Germany)—to support what can now be confirmed as a large-scale redeployment of U.S. fighter jets to the Middle East."

That article is talking about tankers deployed from their European bases.

Well spotted!

https://defence-industry.eu/atlantic-trident-25-finland-to-lead-nato-air-exercise-and-host-rq-4d-phoenix-aircraft/

Under rated comment— is planned excercise in Finland it seems although they don’t mention tankers so who knows

Yeah we're gonna use like 1 tanker for that, 2 on a busy day. The 28 others are going somewhere else

This is not part of that, these tankers are escorting fighters to the middle east

https://www.itamilradar.com/2025/06/17/large-scale-usaf-deployment-to-the-middle-east-involving-over-20-tankers-and-f-35-fighters/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

>> it came to control vast territories and transportation networks in Central America, the Caribbean coast of Colombia, and the West Indies. Although it competed with the Standard Fruit Company (later Dole Food Company) for dominance in the international banana trade, it maintained a virtual monopoly in certain regions, some of which came to be called banana republics – such as Costa Rica, Honduras, and Guatemala.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic#Etymology

>> In the early 20th century, the United Fruit Company, a multinational corporation, was instrumental in the creation of the banana republic phenomenon. Together with other American corporations, such as the Cuyamel Fruit Company, and leveraging the power of the U.S. government, the corporations created the political, economic, and social circumstances that led to a coup of the locally elected democratic government that established banana republics in Central American countries such as Honduras and Guatemala; No official apology has ever been done by any banana company or the U.S. with only the C.I.A. backed dictator of Guatemala apologizing in 2011

:-|

They are so dependable on fossil fuel export that they try to sway all other nations to use fossil fuels

Ah, Okay. I think I understand the problem here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

"In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically and economically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the export of natural resource."

They are so dependable on fossil fuel export that they try to sway all other nations to use fossil fuels and generate crisis on it to tie other nations closer to it's only source of power in global market. Russia has less GDP than Italy. They are not super power anymore, and every nation should try to get away from their fossil fuels.

60% of their export is fossil energy

China, India, and Turkiye have been ravenous in their demand for petrochemicals. These sectors have been growing at a breakneck pace.

it is a banana republic

Which large US business conglomerate is extracting fruit produce from Russia through armed occupation at below market rates?

60% of their export is fossil energy, it is a banana republic

Russia has two exports, fossil energy and war.

Russia is the only country left with a functioning space program. Also, one of the few remaining virgin steel manufacturers, in large part thanks to their domestic supply of iron and cheap energy. And, like Ukraine, it is a major regional breadbasket (one of the knock on effects of the war has been a one-two punch to cereal exports into Africa and the Middle East).

They don't have the manpower that China and India enjoy, so they never properly built up their high end service and manufacturing base, even in the Soviet Era. But the "Russia's just an oversized gas station" line doesn't hold up to any kind of close inspection.

Starting a war isn't really 11D thing, it is more like "me big army, me attack" vibe. Even the orange orangutan can figure that one out.

Russia has two exports, fossil energy and war. They know nothing else.

Putin and his party are one and the same.

Everything you said is true of the GOP/American Right as well, and they do it the same way, through oligarchy, it’s just a matter of they having more time to ratchet it down where the US is just getting its official start, although it’s been working behind the scenes towards this for decades too

Not take out. Take over. And therefore control said trade.

If the US ever try to take out the Panama channel it would fuck up bigly international commerce. Basically only the US military is going to use it because no insurance company is going to cover ships going through them, and without insurance ships can't even leave port.

They won't defend their own democracy. They won't defend mine.

Don't forget panama

Wouldn't this cause catastrophic domestic problems though. I think the US would tear itself apart trying to go to war with either of those three. Greenland perhaps less-so but still incredibly distasteful.

This is why I say Canada, Greenland, and Mexico are not safe. Added to the fact that all 3 countries have lots of resources the US needs.

Putin has done this multiple times now, and Trump is following up.

The United Russia party has had a chokehold on Russian elections practically since the day the USSR was dismantled.

There's a lot more to their socio-economic dominance than Russia just starting new wars. RU controls the national media, they have deep roots in petrochemicals and finance and real estate, they're mobbed up, they have control of the military across the officer's corps, and they're embedded all through local government.

Putin could be the biggest peacenik hippie in Russia and that party wouldn't budge from its perch.

He's doing these wars because he's fascist. Not because he's doing 11D politics chess.

As if any USA president wouldn't be doing the same thing.

Alles klar, Regal 23 im Bauhaus

CIA in the 80s

Aisle 23 at Home Depot, I think.

I think some French (?) guy managed to get a hold of some that didn't have warheads and took apart the guidance systems on YouTube.

Ask chatgtp.

Gotta keep the Middle East under control so gas prices don't get too high. Americans vote for low gas prices and then pretend to be upset about what needs to be done to keep them low. But y'all will keep voting for low gas prices, so it's all hypocrisy.

Can't win a ground war. And they know it. Hence the 30 air tankers. Gonna be another shock and awe air campaign. Except half of the middle east or more will be taking part.

Guess its time for the US to lose another war. We haven't won one since the Soviets won WWII for us.

Iran is defending, that's why the americans cannnot win this war. They don't have enough bombs to kill every iranian from the sky.

I’m reading this book called Heartland that actually really deep dives into why so many Americans are ok with this, the fact of the matter is huge parts of the US have been living in abject poverty since basically always and it’s part of their culture to not need much, wanting things is looked down on as weakness, it’s a cultural part of long term poverty for huge swaths of the US, that living a hard life is the only way to live, there’s obviously many layers to this but it’s not a thing you can just think your way out of (because not getting educated is also part of this culture) since culture and identity are so deeply intertwined and you see that culture being actively promoted and spread via “trad culture” which is very much popular, especially with young men, trad is just code for poor

The people of the US have never seen a brutal invasion of the middle east they didn't support.

Nice one.

A society goes to shit when old men start wars whose conflict they know they shall never fight in

Chicken Hawks who wouldn't go when they were called, but will happily send everyone else's children to die for their oil.

As soon as HitlerPig starts his war, he'll call for a draft. There is no way my son will fight in a MAGA War.

True. It does not have the warmongering malign ambitions that settler colonial states like the US and Israel have.

When did china has imperial ambitions in the middle east? From history i only saw cooperation.

I don't think China gives a shit about Zionism. There's no natural pool of evangelical Christians to brainwash.

China is self-sufficient and has advanced military tech that is at least equivalent to what the US has. Israel has nothing to offer it besides localised spying or murdering people.

Russia is a possibility but it has always found common cause with the Arab nations and Iran so wouldnt be as reliable. It's also not as powerful.

The US is the only sugar daddy for this parasitic colony.

The silver lining is that this will accelerate the decline of the US Empire

But not without a tremendous loss of life.

Israel is a project, literary run by people not their in the first place, so even if US Empire collapse they will move their money to the next dominant power.

Don't ya know, he ended the war in Ukraine on day 1!

USA bringing peace usually involves a lot of military airplanes so I don't see your point

Israel would have scratched their butt, then made up another reason to bomb them.

I would still expect israel to attack iran. There is no way that the proxy war could last foverer

No one in Europe still counts on the US in case of an article 5 situation

yea its a distraction from all the protests, its really making him look bad, but he has the msms focusing on this instead, plus he was using the parade and the shootings as another distraction as well. right now the news practically ignoring the protests. using the. BANNER strategy, flood the MSM with so much crap its hard to focus on one thing. its also known as the firehood of falsehood which is a Russian strategy for propaganda.

Sounds like personal beef.

The nice thing about Americans going to war is that it reduces the amount of dodge owners drag racing late at night. Silver linings.

Both Putin and Trump are approaching dead-ends in their current campaigns. This ICE stuff can't end well for him with so many people out last weekend, and Putin is well stuck in Ukraine, as you say. Whilst they may not be personally interested in the future of Iran and them having nukes by itself, they may need this to save their skin, actually.

Ukraine could throw a wrench in their plans by simply not accepting whatever Putin offers. He's then left with "stay out of it and stay in Ukraine" or "join Trump and risk Ukraine flanking into Russian territory"

Not to mention that this gives him a legitimate reason to invoke the alien enemies act, not that he needed them in the first place, but it will tie up the courts even further.

Neither leader would have any actual skin in the game, it’s just people’s lives that would never contribute in another meaningful way to their power.

Cold War 2: now with more stupid!

>It allows Putin to pull out of Ukraine

Why would Putin pull out of Ukraine? Russia is currently advancing and has a much better position in this war of attrition, and the more it keeps gaining, the better the "peace terms" will be in the end. Putin's not fearing for his next term since elections in Russia are manipulated, the Russian economy is alive and well, and in military terms he's in no hurry

They hope Iran does something, that warrants NATOs article 5 to be triggered. Either the other Nato countries follow along, weakening Europe, or they don't, which basically desolves NATO and thus, weakening Europe.

Come on now, you don't need to invoke some BlueAnon conspiracy to explain why the US would attack Iran; it's been champing at the bit to do so for decades.

My God though, can you imagine magas abiding by wartime rationing?? People lost their shit when they were asked, "Please maybe just don't sneeze on strangers in public 5 times a week.."

I assume most nations of the world taking part is correct. According to Wikipedia WW2 is considered to have started after the invasion of Poland and subsequently UK and France declaring war on Germany, however there were other events beforehand:

>The causes of World War II included unresolved tensions in the aftermath of World War I and the rise of fascism in Europe and militarism in Japan. Key events preceding the war included Japan's invasion of Manchuria in 1931, the Spanish Civil War, the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937, and Germany's annexations of Austria and the Sudetenland. World War II is generally considered to have begun on 1 September 1939, when Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland, after which the United Kingdom and France declared war on Germany.

Considering how much the world has changed since then with advances in technology etc., I think WW3 will look very different if it happens.

Why would you assume that my answer would be "one man"? It was an incredibly complex conflict that was really a collection of smaller regional conflicts with various allies between them.

&

There's no singular cause of WW2.

Because basically all of those reasons are the same as WWI but amplified by the restrictions (manufactured economic crisis) posed upon Germany at the end of WWI.

That is why I said it can be viewed as the same war.

\

(Imho - anyways it's literally just semantics, perhaps propaganda of the victors a bit.)

Much like (the recent-ish) Russia in Ukraine - it's usually not viewed as two separate wars, one in 2014 & the other in 2022. Bcs it's the same thing, it was oblivious that it isn't over & both Russia & NATO/Ukraine have all been actively preparing each year.

However, in retrospect, many people would say when Germany invaded Poland. That said, USSR and Finland were already fighting at that point, as well as Japan and China.

Yeah, Japan in China started basically in 31 (13 years after official end of WWI, a much more European thing), whereas Germany's first foreign move was the military invasion of Austria in 38.

There's no singular cause of WW2. However, in retrospect, many people would say when Germany invaded Poland.

That said, USSR and Finland were already fighting at that point, as well as Japan and China. It's not a clear line.

Why would you assume that my answer would be "one man"? It was an incredibly complex conflict that was really a collection of smaller regional conflicts with various allies between them.

So what caused WWII?

I assume your answer is *'one man'*?

In the same way "terrorist groups" arent created by the dominant force exerting mass injustice?

WW2 happened like 25 years after WW1.

It's already been over 80 years since the start of WW2, so I'm not sure you can really assume that they'll be that related.

Because it is not normal. Nor is it mentally health to be fearful and scared of everything and nothing.

It’s a chronic mental health issue. But yeah go ahead and wave it off harder. That will make it healthier. Internet is getting dumber.

Good chat mate. Really compelling argument.

Holy moly lemmy has the tard.

Both world wars look like "clear lines" to you *after the fact*. Of course you can just point at, say, Ferdinand getting assassinated and go "yeah that's what started WW I" but do you think *anyone* at that time thought "yup that's going to start the mother of all wars"?

As others have pointed out they absolutely didn't look like clear lines when they were kicking off.

They have been.

Months after assassination of Ferdinand the actual fighting began, and most projected it would be just anther war (common at the time in Europe, tho less common each century). People living through it knew nothing about it upfront.

We wildly think of WWII beginning with the invasion of Poland, but it took months for everyone (England included) to realise it wasn't a war between two countries.

Not to mention how WWI & WWII are basically the same war in two seemingly inevitable parts.

And we have had a ton of proxy and/or cold wars between Russia & USA since WWII ended.

Just speculating really. Mind enlightening me what the clear line will be?

Why do people say such ignorant shit with so much confidence?

Also Hitler was Austrian. Also Austrians are Bavarian.

*Coincidentally*, the current German minister of the interior is Bavarian and facing multiple criminal complaints regarding inciting subordinates to commit crimes.

WWII literally began after Austria (Hitler's homeland) was already a region of Germany (since March 38).

wiki/Anschluss

\

wiki/Reichsgau


I think it's a joke abaut how closely related the countries were, when they started the first 2 WWs (and maybe Hitler being Austrian)

Austria had already been annexed by Germany when WWII started

Austrian region of Germany? I presume with that level of geography you must be American.

You're probably right

I'd say annexed Crimea. (Unless that's what you meant)

You could also argue it started when the US invaded Iraq

You could argue it started when Russia invaded Ukraine. But I wouldn't mind Trump being forever remembered in history as the instigator.

Imagine starting WW3 the weekend after 3% of your population came out to protest for other reasons. Your war weariness debuff will hit 100% in one turn.

It's not a world war if it's not from the Austrian region of Germany, otherwise it's just sparkling aggression.

Yeah. It feels that way. What defines a world war anyway? Is it just when "most" countries become engaged in a major conflict?

Yeah, like which of the recent events will be in future textbooks as the trigger for WWIII, and how will it all lead back to WWI (like WWII is basically a direct consequence of conditions of pre-WWI and major events related to the war & post-war treaties - WWIII in this config is a consequence of WWI/WWII & the forced hegemony/colonialism of USA that followed).

WW3 is any ruler biggest dream because it would grant them the highest amount of power they can get. WW3 won't happen as long as people refuse to go to war because rulers never fight their wars and they need pawns who do die for them. You will get a world war once enough people get brainwashed to fought one. Watch out for government and war propaganda.

Doomer brain is toxic. WWIII will be a clear line. They have been.

Completely ~~different~~ the fuckin same

weeks

I think you misspelled years

I think there's a *huge* difference between serving in a military controlled by a healthy democracy, and serving in a military controlled by an authoritarian regime.

Several weeks ago you could forgive someone for not realising that Trump is the latter, but not really any more.

Considered that american wars after world war 2 is war of agressions never say thank for your service to any soldier

None of this was meant as an argument to join up, just stating facts in relation to my experience, and how the logic could folllow for some in desperate situations. It sucks to feel like you have to join the military because the starting line is 100 paces ahead of you. All of it sucks my dude. My original point was that recruiters prey on desperation, remember? It’s just up there ⬆️⬆️

Now we’re saying that it’s ethical to join the military because they’ll pay for you to have a baby. Is that really a serious argument?

No like, base housing, or a housing allowance.

As for healthcare I see your point and yes that’s a travesty. But my daughter was born in a hospital and I paid zero dollars for prenatal care and her birth. So. That’s what I meant.

“Housing.” As in a cot to sleep on? You can get the same at a homeless shelter or by landing yourself in jail.

“Healthcare.” Hm yes the military has a great reputation for taking care of the folks maimed in the line of duty after they’ve sent them into harm’s way. Don’t join the army for your health, y’all!

I’m being generous. I mean the revolutionary and civil wars weren’t exactly imperialism. But you’re right there are older examples to be sure. Like what we did to Mexico.

But fast food won’t guarantee housing or healthcare. Military recruitment preys on those with nowhere else to go.

Decades implies that it once (in USAs history) wasn't so, which is false. The rest of it if very true tho.

Always. Even the continental army was set up to facilitate and enable genocide.

Centuries*

It’s been decades that our military has been nothing but an imperialist boot. There is no moral ground to stand on in signing up. Work fast food.

How hard is it to just not kill others?

Apparently really fucking hard for some.

Instead of "thank you for your service" I guess we'll have to start saying, "fuck you for your service"

The nuremberg defense didn't work for the nazis, why should it work for zionists?

I was thinking the same about the national guard deployed to LA.

I was hoping to find at least one article that focuses more on that part, but until then: what you said.

We - everywhere - need to talk about soldiers as people, not "the military".

If your job is to support a government that murders children you are a criminal and a coward

I explained it poorly but the other half of the threat is "we have complete air superiority so we can strike your leadership itself any time they stick their heads out of their bunkers" or "we can destroy your oil fields and tank your economy at any point" etc.

Iran has very few chips left to play with considering they have zero air defenses at the moment. I predict they will be forced to surrender their entire nuclear program or they will face a decapitation attack and destruction of their entire refinement capability and military apparatus.

"How to lose WW3 in a day"

“How to start WW3 in 10 seconds”.

The hell did you want me to call it then? "Military service" is a completely common expression to use, and it applies whether we like what they're doing or not.

And before you get any bright ideas: no, I'm not American and no, I don't support what their military does. This kind of completely pointless semantic wankery just really activates my almonds

They deserve medical treatment but what service destroying other countries?

But don't expect any medical treatment after your service if you're a Democrat or unmarried: *‘Extremely disturbing and unethical’: new rules allow VA doctors to refuse to treat Democrats, unmarried veterans*

And it will last you till your death (several days later).

None of which are socialist.

They are all systematically weaved out of the closed, private two-party system.

The media told them ~~Hillary is the most qualified candidate in history~~ only Biden can beat Trump, because he appeals to moderates, where things like free healthcare and not locking immigrants in cages only appeals to far left loonies.

The average American wants these things, its just we cant risk the Republicans winning so we have to run on the republican platform from 4 years ago.

This is the truth.

Americans have shown where their priorities lie, time and time again.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Enjoy your weekend.

Haha... good joke. I didn't see your mention of healthcare in your previous comment.

It's typical of conspiracy theorists to say "it was just a joke" when called out on their bullshit. You may go back to doing "your own research in the internet" now.

What?

It was a joke about how we have no money to spend on healthcare for the population, but we always jump to throw endless cash at defense contractors to supply the military...

Zomg, Boeing planes being flown above enemy territory as surprise kamikazes (surprise to the pilots & crew).

Lockheed Martin did October 7?

Basically 9/11 truther style conspiracy nonsense going on here.

Not to worry, it's made in china, shipped from china, and then people in detention centers will be forced by ICE to package it for that bonus fascism feel for those that believe it's made in the US and and they're getting a deal on the T-Mobile package that costs almost 2x other providers for the same service.

Sorry, best I can do is 2 trillion more for Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and the like. They're desperate man, they haven't had a war for like 12 minutes, they need to be fed.

Best the turnip can do is a gold colored overpriced shit phone.

And human rights. Due process. Rule of law and respect the constitution. Less inflation. More progress on our environment. Rebuild some infrastructure. Invest in some technologies of the future rather than the past. Leadership that understands basic economics and actually the art of the deal

Don’t worry. You’ll get it if you can be drafted.

Other Americans just want fucking guns and affordable discrimination. It's a sad day.

Best we can do is give more people PTSD and then deny them disability or treatment for it. America loves dead soldiers, we can't go too long without having a new batch.

Best I can do is a Trump smartphone.

You had a chance at that in Zuck's metaverse...

Be that as it may, we also only seem to vote for people that we know aren't going to actually do what they say, except on the issue of immigration.

We just want fucking healthcare and affordable housing.

Trumps response is to offer army barracks and MREs, in exchange for you becoming cannon fodder in his delusional war games.

Yeah. Unfortunately it's been obvious to a lot of us for awhile that it would only come from the ashes of this country.

You don’t, because almost none of you vote for socialist candidates.

This will give the oil companies a reason to ...

Are these american military bases useful for europe anymore? Do we need them? I always thought they were a nato thing, but nowadays I don't know. If europe is alone against the russians anyway and we cant count on nato, maybe we should just tell the american military to leave europe?

Air sharks at a smell of a big conflict in the ME.

Agreed. I wanted just to emphasize that the party does not make much of a difference in regards to wars.

Was I ever in denial that the USA likes to play bully and world police? Let's not forget our history about the rest of the Western nations, they're hardly angels themselves. We're all the same people anyways. Actually that reminds me of a good ole George Carlin quote, "We come from that northern European, basically the northern European genes, the blue eyes. Those blue eyes. Boy everybody in the world learned real quick, didn’t they? When those blue eyes sail out of the north, you better nail everything down motherfucker."

Who are you even replying to

They are jingoists, and jingoists are no different than schoolyard bullies who want to appear tough so they loudly proclaim how tough and big they are, which includes an occasional show of force against those they believe won't/can't defend themselves to reinforce their image of being the biggest Tough Guy™ around.

If they win, they win. If they lose, it's because they decided it wasn't worth their time and left willingly, not because they lost.

This country has always been stuck up its own ass.

And considerably more than the bare minimum to help Israel

I would rather build a real, actual house for people than a system of oppression built on violence.

And that does not happen overnight, if you don't follow up protests, and some voting.

I would rather build a real, actual house for people than a system of oppression built on violence.

And before you say “habitat for humanity Jimmy Carter “ it’s the same catty bureaucracy I’ve found everywhere.

Same, but

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.

We still need to get the ball rolling. The institutions and networks we need will take a lot of time to build. I know a lot of our fellow lefties don't want to interact with anything government, but doing so with the goals of harm reduction gives us space to lay the roots and set up the next generation for success. If we are serious about things we need follow ups for our protests and making the best efforts we can in our sub-ideal situations.

I read that and it made me sad because that will literally never happen in my potential grandchildren’s lifetimes

Oddly trying to do anything to form a new progressive is also something they don’t seem interested in either.

Its okay to not like liberals, but that part of my original comment is important.

(definitely couldn't be a negotiating tactic)?

No, it definitely wasn't a "negotiation tactic". It was meant to avoid negotiating without Biden's adoring masses noticing that he did a 180. He caved to AIPAC, as he would continue to do throughout his term.

Why the hell would Iran go back to fulfilling it's obligations under the agreement when the US was still ignoring it's obligations? Why would it bother negotiating with a country that doesn't honor negotiated agreements? Everyone in the foreign policy space knew exactly what it was.

Yes I know how you ended your comment,

Then why the fuck did you haul out "both sides"? Why are so many people desperate to throw everything into that frame?

Biden didn't even fucking do yet.

Yet? I'm not sure how to argue with someone who thinks Biden is still president. It doesn't seem worthwhile.

Nobody is paving over anything, you just cannot help yourself but shit on them *theoretical shit* that Biden didn't even fucking do yet.

Absolutely, I just don't think it actually helps Democrats in the long run to pave over their often deep flaws. If we were harder on Democrats 30 years ago, we probably wouldn't have Trump today.

Its one thing to be unhappy with the democrats. Its another (and self defeating) to not want to expand the progressive wing inside of it (or to form a new party and go for local elections) and to not stall alt right republicans everywhere else.

Both sides are the same because Biden said something that suggested he might be hard on Iran (definitely couldn't be a negotiating tactic)?

Yes I know how you ended your comment, I was replying to the rest of it.

Biden ran on getting back into the deal with Iran, then insisted that Iran must completely return to fulfilling their side of the deal before we would consider returning to ours.

Both sides are not the same but Biden shouldn't be let off the hook for his sudden flip on this issue.

Yeah when liberals kill a wedding party or hospital at least they act sad.

But only against countries that pose no threat to them i.e. they are chickenhawks. At least Biden could do the bare minimum to help Ukraine.

Dude, USA is the country that is involved in most wars - starts them / finances them / whatever. And they usually find a dummy excuse to preserve their facade of doing good.

Face the truth - you are the bully of the world and the ruling party does not matter.

You'd be surprised. There are quite a few on lemmy that still do the both sides are the same. Oddly trying to do anything to form a new progressive is also something they don't seem interested in either.

it's not a lot, but quite a constant flow (mainly C17) for at least a couple hours.


Cool website. I'm not seeing shit for military flights in the ME. I wonder if they all went dark or if I am not filtering correctly.

That doesn't' really seem plausible based on the scale of the deployment.

Oil price spike is actually very profitable for oil company and bad for not oil company

Chuckle... Oh shit!

Lol same reaction. I don't think it's too absurd, sadly 😔

you are making it worse somehow

(But I did laugh at the absurdity of it all, so thank you)

Surprise attack on Ukraine?

Realistically it would be a normal thing to build up forces in the area to monitor and contain the conflict in case of further escalation by either party. Especially with Iranian proxy liable to strike at international shipping in the red sea and straight of Hormuz.

So this could just be a nothing burger. I hope.

Edit: okay yeah. No. 🍊 Is absolutely involving the military in there.

Well, you're dependent on tramp's judgement at this point (panik)...on the one hand his caveman brain knows "oil price spike bad" and he can say no to bibi (kalm)...but he's an idiot and easy to manipulate, so maybe he'll fuck that up too (panik).

Yeah, would still probably be an improvement on this one.

Lol. Whilst that would not have solved many problems. In retrospect I would've preferred that timeline.

Ah ok. Lol, for a moment I thought you might have meant Jessie Ventura

Bernie, autocorrected

Venture?

Not if the democrats keep electing the same type of candidate. The trouble began when they shoehorned in Hilary, would Bernie have ran in 2016 the world would be a better place.

Right, fair enough I guess. I just can't see where *exactly* the dickishness lies. I don't see a "tone" anywhere.

Hahaha *WHAT?* You're a liar for saying I'm a sexist and for saying I said those things in DMs. Post whatever evidence you want, you asshole. I dare you.

Do you also go around saying men raped you when they didn't?

God, I was hoping I wouldn't run into people like this here on Lemmy. I thought Lemmy would be different.

At least it took over a year or two until I ran into one again. That's to Lemmy's credit.

Apologies, I didn't realize that you weren't the person that I originally responded to.

I'm not trying to convince them. I don't give a fuck if they change their tone. I was only telling them why the post wasn't well received.

I'm not the one who made the "dick" comment...

I'm not trying to convince anyone of something.

You're saying they should change their tone. 🤷‍♂️ Meh. Whatever you say.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of something. I'm just telling why you're being downvoted, and it's not because of the content of your post. I'd post differently if I were trying to make a sincere point.

following it with more **blame** instead of action.

I don't see blame anywhere?

And leading with "hate is not going to get you anywhere" and following it with more blame instead of action.

Find your local mutual aid group. Volunteer. Protest. Get involved.

[you're] kinda acting like a dick

I really don't see it. I see only advice trying to help them get a healthier point of view. 🤷‍♂️

Change your tone and you might get a better reception.

This has literally the same vibe.

It's not that we don't agree with you, it's that your kinda acting like a dick. Change your tone and you might get a better reception.

Spite can be a powerful motivator.

Edit: the upvote/downvote ratio on a comment like this shows how rapidly Lemmy is turning into Reddit. Nobody cares about the data, if you remotely sound like defending the GOP down the chute you go.

Many people just aren't serious enough to take actions that are material beneficial. We want leftist ideas, but no one wants to form a party or vote for one.

Let's not pretend that the Democrats wouldn't also side with Israel

What got us here is the same two parties cycling in power for a century. If you believe war is red fault alone and that voting blue will change anything, you are part of the problem.