One of the Dreamliners That Gave a Boeing Manager Nightmares Just Crashed

The real reason is that airlines don’t want a monopoly where there’s only one relevant manufacturer that can dictate airframe prices to them. That’s why you will see almost every airline trying to at least somewhat balance the scales between Airbus and Boeing.

Eventually

Use an airbus

Yes, that would be the sensible thing to do. Too bad that people are not sensible.

Introducing Space X expedited flights from Florida to anywhere in the world... Remote pickup not included in conflict regions.

I'm dumb

It is a mystery why their shares didn’t tank more

It's gambling for the people who want to be rich. It's a bank and tax haven for those who are already rich.

It's gambling for the rich and people who want to be rich.

I mean, yes, but what does that have to do with their question?

Because the stock market is a fucking scam.

Because what are you gonna do? Not fly?

Airbus has a backlog of 8000 jets. Order one today and it will take a decade before it arrives. So airliners basically have to keep their current fleet flying.

Planes they already have can't really be grounded immediately without replacements. Buying replacements takes time and money. Negotiating contracts also takes time. Pre existing contracts tying a company to boeing probably exist in some places. There's probably some incentive to not drop a somewhat strategic business on a whim. And maybe some people believe that boeing will start pulling their head out of their ass at some point.

And all that would be a hindrance *assuming* there is a will to stop buying boeing planes, AND move to another, potentially foreign business like Airbus.

they probably already bought too many of Boeing planes before these accidents happened. So what are they gonna do, put a bunch of Boeing planes in the back room and use Airbus? Still when i fly, I avoid Boeing like a plague. The problem is there are very limited Airbus flights for my route.

Organisational inertia. Planes are expensive, and getting them and qualified personnel to fly and maintain them is a long and complicated process for the airline companies (and the governments supporting the airlines).

They *get* the news about Boeing being crap, but they can't just reverse a decision in one day, because the decision to go with Boeing was made years or decades ago.

The company I work for did end up hiring many of the temp engineers from the company in that article, and the ones hired are some great coworkers, but there were many we didn’t hire.

that was a horrifying read as a software engineer but also as an Indian.

If it was from electrical failure, it'd be more likely to happen in the pilot's thrust control than simultaneously in both engines. But usually if both engines fail after take off....my money is on fuel system failure.

Good. They might be more intact, too, given how it sounds like this plane landed.

I don't know much about the deep details of either plane, but as I understand it there is a backup power system on the 737, albeit not one for the black boxes themselves. The indications were it just failed as well, at the same time.

The 787 has backup power for black boxes while the 737 uses an outdated design that does not, so there *shouldn't* be missing data hopefully.

Had they gotten high enough to even be able to nose down though?

It seemed to take forever to start to rotate and the nose was pointed up the whole time. I would have expected to see the nose point down to prevent a stall.

a game glitching.

Ya it was military equipment that was not secured appropriately.

I remember that, if I remember correctly, it was a tank, and they suddenly had a massive CoG shift to the back of the aircraft, causing the plane to pitch up and stall.

That is crazy, it looked like CGI.

Thanks for sharing this.

Aside from the promotional material in the video, it's nice to see something that shows the raw footage instead of some talking heads babbling over an edited cut.

i've seen one, where the plane stalled after taking off and then kinda went backwards, then dove frontal again. if i remember correctly, unsecured cargo was suspected. it fell like a leaf.

found it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/may/01/747-cargo-plane-crash-bagram-airbase-video

Yeah.... The article is conflating power failure with engine failure. It was a very odd plane crash, and it didn't appear that they had power failure. It looks like they lost thrust on both engines, which is really rare in multiengine aircraft.

Yep, another Boeing mystery crash where everything stopped working at once.

I'm kinda suspicious that the critical moments weren't actually missing from Jeju Air's black boxes when they were delivered to the US.

Who’s downvoting this? It’s hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfA2p6Em7bI

I'm not going to say you're wrong, exactly. I can't prove that. I don't know if there's any actual data comparing the two models, and I'm guessing you know the same history I do when it comes to the gritty days of trusts before the multinational.

You have to see how that argument can apply to systems of government, though. It's out of fashion to want a "benevolent dictator", but that's the exact kind of thing people hoped for from Louis XIV or Mussolini. Cut through the bureaucracy, stop shifting responsibility around, give help directly where it's needed.

No no no... It's not democracy, it's abstraction

Democracy would be a worker owned business. Where the people who do the thing decide how it should be done. And it's great, it makes sense, it's ethical, and the decisions are made democratically by the most informed people

Stock markets don't work like that. At one point you had voting, but now it's all speculation and layers of abstraction

Do you think the shareholders know or care how the business is being run? No, they just want line go up, because they've got a dozen other places to shift the money to if it's not going up fast enough

They don't know or care if the company is dumping chemicals into the lake until the rest of us do. They don't know that the cars are dangerous, but it was cheaper to set aside money for damages.

They aren't part of the company at all - they have no responsibility for what the company does. They have no control... Except, collectively. Maybe they could join together to replace a board member or sell to lower the price negligably. And the board has a responsibility to the shareholders. And the CEO just listens to the same consultant the shareholders do

So really, it's no one's fault.

Chick fila donates to hate groups, but they also front the money for new franchise owners. Costco pays well. Arizona iced tea doesn't raise their prices because they have no debt and the guy says he's making enough money.

Yes, you're going to have shit heads and good people... But as bad as my pillow guy is I'd be shocked if he was knowingly poisoning people... That usually weighs on a person's conscience, but not so much if they can diffuse the responsibility

What would you rather have, one person with a ton of power making decisions, or abstract it out over a group and diffuse all responsibility?

That pretty much describes democracy.

Government ideologies don't apply in any clear way here, of course. A corporation is an oversized market stall, and the main argument is how to regulate them and if we should have them at all. But, if that's the bit you take issue with there's a clear parallel.

A person isn’t usually dumb enough to fire half their workforce, because they know their bread and butter comes from that workforce. A consulting company advising the business and shareholders at the same time can easily do such stupidity for short term profits

That can go both ways, though. Think about ~~Twitter~~ X, MyPillow and Chick-Fil-A. And the countless sketchy small businesses that exist.

Yes. Unambigiously.

What would you rather have, one person with a ton of power making decisions, or abstract it out over a group and diffuse all responsibility?

Both are bad, but one of them has a (likely not morally great) person at the top, the other has lots of robber barons sharing ownership and collectively demanding line go up

A person isn't usually dumb enough to fire half their workforce, because they know their bread and butter comes from that workforce. A consulting company advising the business and shareholders at the same time can easily do such stupidity for short term profits

Sooo robber barons are better?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_private_non-governmental_companies_by_revenue

Including such recognizable names as Aldi, State Farm, Deloitte, Ingram Micro, and Ikea.

Yeah these headlines always grind my gears. Even the equity they don't steal, they leverage as if their own assets. They're fucking mine and yours.

Black Rock owns *absolutely fuck-all*. It only manages the 401ks of normal people like you and me, and ***STOLE OUR SHAREHOLDER VOTING RIGHTS***.

No, it really doesn't. Assets under management (not owned) 11.5 trillion, while the American stock market alone is worth around 50.

That's why going public is a sign the owners no longer care about the business and only care about fleecing us as much as possible.

Black Rock basically owns the entire stock market. Even the best intentioned companies eventually have to cave to fiduciary duty to shareholders.

What capitalist giant corp isn't?

and thier spacecraft is haunted, making those mysterious sounds while in flight.

Only sometimes! And the door goes pop! Too!

Pretty sure they don't usually do that.

I'll tell you, that's not supposed to happen.


or when the front falls off midflight.

No, I will continue dismissing you as having no idea of what you’re talking about because that’s clear to anyone who’s even half educated about aviation.

oh nuanced! you're so sophisticated! first don't dismiss others as if they have no idea. acknowledge you may not be the smartest in the room. Otherwise you come off as a clown.

Listen man, I personally go out of my way to not fly on Boeing planes, but we have no idea what happened to the Air India flight. And frankly, what we know about QC problems with 787 airframes is nowhere close to giving you an immediate double engine rollback right after rotation.

Of course, as always on Lemmy, people who know very little about a topic will accuse those with more nuanced opinions of being paid off because they’re not validating their simple world views. It’s like discussing people in a crack house.

critical thinking is when you can differentiate a multimillion dollar corporation defending itself vs. pilots and crew who have nothing to gain and a lot of risk coming out about how bad their ex-employer screwed up and swept it under the rug. this sort of stuff is not uncommon from corporations.

I am more likely to believe that Air India was screwing up because they have a history of this. If a lot of people complain about smoke coming out of places it shouldn't be, then i would listen to them rather than the owner who pretends everything is fine.

critical thinking is when you decide not to question stuff because you like the narrative

username checks out. You should leave the critical thinking to people who aren't born yesterday

they ***definitely*** offed a whistleblower.


Of course a suicide would have advance knowledge of their own death. It's not unusual for suicidal people to lie about their own mental health. Especially to their closest loved ones.

What you point out could only support a vague suspicion; a motive to look for compelling evidence. Hanging a whole murder conspiracy on evidence this thin is not the product of critical thought.

Not to mention, they ***definitely*** offed a whistleblower. The guy specifically told his family and friends that he was not suicidal, and had no intent whatsoever to take his own life… and then is found dead after missing a testimony date.

You know why the 2008 financial crisis happened? Banks sold assets under the assumption that their credit rating was intact.

Sure, I would afford Airbus every benefit of a doubt, but sorry, Boeing is building a track record which _none_ of us should ignore. My speculation is warranted.

only if you deliberately bury your head at evidence or on Boeing payroll.


Boeing…Boeing…Gone!

Boeing: the sound a plane makes when it hits the ground

Too early to make assumptions.

Boeing's gonna Boeing

A rich executive put the lives of others below penny pinching profits?

I'm shook. 🫩

Sounds like the planes Boeing sent to India had foreign object debris rattling around inside conduits.

That’s a ticking time bomb for random electrical failures, such as both engines shutting down right after takeoff.

I recently had the privilege of cleaning up code by a big India out sourcing company. The code quality was some of the worst I have seen in my 30 years of programming. Then I found [this article] (https://www.industryweek.com/supply-chain/article/22027840/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers) about the same company writing code for Boeing.

I am genuinely curious why on Earth airline companies are still buying Boeing planes. The last 5-10 crashes all included their planes and it is a mystery why their shares didn't tank more.

Boeing is run too much by Wall Street.

Boeing is straight fucking scum, but that was the strangest plane crash I've ever seen. (LOL, like I'm an export.) The truth will out.

I hope a third player balances things out. I don't care if it is Bombardier, Embraer, Comac or some other company. Just need the Airbus-Boeing duopoly broken.