Spain aims to ban flushing of wet wipes, with manufacturers paying for cleanup

Not sure about that. They would probably start paying for cleaning offsets or something and claim that it's the same as actually cleaning up their trash, so they don't need to do anything.

That was in 1812, after than we went back to Monarchy with the infamous Fernando VII, then Isabel II, then Alfonso XII, Alfonso XIII then dictatorship then democracy (1978).

My house is from the late XIX century.

When has Spain been a absolute monarchy recently, I think Spain became a Parliamentary Monarchy with the Cortes de Cadiz in 1836

Nailed it. Real Decreto 314/2006

Luckily I live in a house from when Spain was an Absolute Monarchy with bidet in every bathroom.

I went to Japan last month. It is a bidet heaven. My ass was so clean!

It actually use to be mandatory in Spain since the dictatorship and until 20 years ago or so.

Uhhh, you know those things are from the store, right?

I've seen cardboard in America too! Sometimes you'll also see reusable clip-on plastic tops that some smaller stores will actually let you return so they can re-use them, or send them back on their next shipment, although that's much less common.

Here the whole 6pack is either wrapped in a thin plastic foil or it's cardboard.

I haven't seen can six packs in the wild in Germany for ages, the few cans that are for sale come in trays of 24. Results do show pictures of "wrap everything in plastic" (Coca-Cola) as well as cardboard solutions like the Spanish one, the first hit that's a commercial supply looks just like carton six-pack packaging for bottles.

Thing is cans are kind of iffy in Germany because of the 25ct deposit, it's not so much the deposit that's the issue (the same goes for very popular PET bottles) but that cans crinkle and once they do they might be right-out impossible to scan and get your money back. Also PET is fine for about everything but beer, and for beer there's glass bottles. If you ever see beer in PET in Germany give it a wide berth it tastes as good as its price-point indicates. You're better off with wine or sangria in a tetra pack.

Yes, but it's actually not that great for the enviornment since in Spain normally the plastic foil and aluminium layer is not separated for recycling. The only part that gets recycled is the external cardboard layer.

In Spain cardboard is used

it’s absolutely wild that the US still allows this… it’s 1 of the first things my friends all comment on when travelling there (australia)

Not a shower, just washing my ass. Also I try to avoid pooping in public whenever possible. I guess not everyone does, but if it happens, it happens. Not the end of the world.

Most people only use toilet paper, which is way worse. Bidets get you almost as clean as a shower, but I expect everyone is washing their ass with soap and water at least once per day in the shower.

Bidets these days have heated, oscillating water and blow dryers with hot air.

You’re taking a shower after every shit? Do you even do this when visiting someone else’s house?

People use bidets in-place of toilet paper or other wipes, not a shower with soap.

All the Japanese ones are like this - referred to as "Washlets" in Toto's case. Iirc the bidet terminology can be problematic in the EU as bidets are technically what they use in Italy.

Good luck finding one, but Toto definitely sells them there, too! See here for more info.

Really nice, will look for a EU compatible model more that I have a launching point. Never came across one that was built in like that!

I use a Toto Washlet C2. I live in an old apartment that only has the classic "round" styled seats (to save space), and this works with that.

Couldn't recommend it more. Has a self wash, but I still wash it every couple of months by hand.

No dirtier than a normal toilet, and the premist functionality reduces stickage and the amount I need to clean.

No need to get an ultra fancy toilet, and this model (the c2) has all the fancy features at a relatively low price (no detachable remote, no profiles, no instant water heater) (I don't think any of those are worth the extra cost).

Every time I've seen these bidet threads, everyone talks about conversion kits (which don't have the door) or ultra fancy toilets (which I can't buy and use in an apartment).

And the only ones I've seen with a door we're the ultra fancy toilets, though didn't know they could self wash too.

Every bidet Ive seen has some kind of cleaning feature, whether self clean or just a button that makes it pop out so you can spray it with sanitizer.

The Toto bidets have these features for about $335, iirc. You can usually find them at Costco. Amazon sometimes has them too.

See now that I would be extremely interested in. What's it called?

This reminded me to hit my bidet button and stop browsing. Enjoying the ass blast as I type this.

Mine not only has such a door, but can self-wash with hot water and then disinfect and deodorise itself. It also has a hot air dryer. Using it right now!

Yes, they have little doors and always retract back up after use. They also do an automatic bleed before and after each use to wash them off. There is also a manual bleed and clean option so the wand can be cleaned by hand (though they stay remarkably clean. The wonders of Japanese engineering).

Also one other thing that's never been answered for me: where is the soap dispenser located? Are people seriously just washing their ass with nothing but water and calling it clean? What's next? Washing your hands without soap?

Honestly I rather just use the shower head to rinse off after a shit, cause the body wash is already right there. Plus I can adjust the temperature so I'm not blasting freezing cold water directly onto my asshole.

Don’t you clean your toilet? That takes care of it.

Your "the only way" argument is literally how they are all sold. Maybe do even the lightest bit of research before declaring you have no option but to continue doing the worst thing possible?

"We've done nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

Edit: Reading this back I was kind of mean. Obviously you're entitled to your own preferences, but bidets have solved most of those problems already and are definitely worth checking out.

Medium, I guess?

So, if you have poop on your hands, would you eat with that hand after only using toilet paper to wipe it off?

The “poop encrusted ass” remark suggests you don’t actually know how toilet paper works or how to use it.

Why are you wiping your wet ass with toilet paper the same way you wipe your poop encrusted ass? Its already clean. Just dab your ass with toilet paper and you won't leave bits of toilet paper in them.

That would be nice. I’ve yet to come across one personally, though.

I too am from a place bidets are rare, literally don't know anybody else who has one. But after that first wash I was changed, made a true believer; anybody who talks bad about bidets is shit talking something I love. Try one, join us on the smug and clean side of butthole's.

If I disagree with this do I upvote

Bro.

I live in a country where bidets are extremely rare. I honestly only know one single household with a bidet. I have however discussed getting one, but the discussion has pretty much faded out since it isn't seen as a common need around here.

I fully agree with the "buttholes are the only thing we are content with wiping with paper to clean away poop"-paradox argument. I have mentioned that a lot in my discussions with my gf about getting one. So maybe I should get one - as I said, my opinion isn't very strong as I haven't experienced one, and I haven't experienced sanitary issues with using paper.

So with all that said, it's less tempting to make that purchase when people respond as condescending dickheads when raising concerns or questions about it. You just fully assumed that I lived in a place where bidets are common and told me to grow up and that I am ignorant. The other commenter got called a dumbass for not knowing the bidet procedure when they initially said that they were not bidet trained.

Being condescending doesn't really help anyone. It just makes me want to ignore your advice.

Bidets should be banned, non sarcastically. People who shoot water into their shitty anus, creating shit water that splashes all over the place, are disgusting and a health hazard. That's probably why you only see them in third world places like Europe, which historically has been a disgusting place with disgusting people who would literally dump buckets of shit into the streets. You really gonna take hygiene advice from those *pigs*? LMAO

Anyways, I'm going to continue to properly clean my ass with toilet paper, like God intended. Hopefully those Europoopeans invest in proper potty training for future generations so they can stop being the laughing stock for the rest of the modern world.

Downvote if you agree.

"a bunch of people told an ignorant person they were wrong and that offended me because I'm also ignorant and that makes me upset."

Bro grow up and wash your asshole. If you stepped in shit barefoot would you be cool just wiping it with paper and moving on or would you use water? Bidets should be standard in the USA, absolutely barbaric using the sandpaper corporate America has deemed acceptable.

I don't have any opinion about bidets, just wanted to join the downcote train.

I don’t really care about my “social credit score”. It’s an honest question and I’ve learned a couple things about bidets so far. The overwhelming conclusion, however, is that a lot of proud bidet users are kind of elitist assholes (heh, puns), and would rather admonish condescendingly than care to explain. Goes to show you really need a parent or a family member to properly teach you these things. If no one in your family has ever used a bidet, then I guess you’re shit out of luck (heh).

Either that or the guy saying they’re overrated was on to something and everyone’s getting defensive and pissy (heh) about it. If your method was truly better, you could just explain it without resorting to shame tactics. Could be something they’re embarrassed about?

Nah, not really. If the only thing you need to do is dry your ass, all you do is ball up the tp before you swipe so it doesn't fall apart.

Toilet paper comes apart when it gets sopping wet, dumbass.

(I assume you prefer communicating in a derogatory style, so I’ll just mimick yours.)

Do you shit while in the shower?

I wash with soap when I shower. Do you use soap with your bidet?

Soap. In the shower I use soap.

What I gather from this thread is that some people have an ass towel in their bathroom, and I should be drying my hands on my shirt/pants if I use a bathroom with a bidet.

How is leaving your ass crusted in poo less disgusting than wiping your ass after cleaning it with water? Do you not wipe your ass after a shower? If you do, that's just another ass towel that you also use to wipe your whole body. If you don't, that means you don't actually care about having swampy ass in the first place.

After a shower you dry off with a towel, obviously.

Do you dry your ass with a towel after using a bidet? An ass towel? Because that's disgusting.

In my experience it still comes apart.

TP is supposed to dissolve in water, that’s why we can flush it.

But if you’re washing with a bidet, how do you know you’re clean if you’re just spraying your shit with water then just patting it with TP? Do you wash it with your hands when spraying water?

Toilet paper doesn't stick when it's not wet. It falls apart when it is wet.

You can just pat it dry, the toilet paper doesn't rip

So.. no bidet, no toilet paper, how do you usually wipe your arse, entire hand, seashells?

How does having bits of toilet paper stuck to my ass improve the situation?

You wipe your ass to dry it after using it, dumbass.

You dry off with toilet paper. The bidet is for cleaning

Comes with heated seat, blower fan these days.

Your average bidet will usually have a built-in dryer if you buy name brands. Heated water, heated dryer. It saves a remarkable amount of money on TP too. It actually paid itself off after about four years of shitting. And your ass is incredibly clean afterwards, which is a blessing in hot and humid summers for reasons I won't elaborate on prior to getting a bidet, lol.

This is exactly it.

I used a bidet in Europe in my thirties, and then my ass was all wet. I could dry it with toilet paper and leave bits of toilet paper in my ass hair, or I could dry it with a dedicated ass towel, which is clearly less sanitary than just wiping.

It's wet and uncomfortable, and it's not any better than just wiping. Running a bit of water over something doesn't really clean it anyway.

It's honestly shamefull to see people downvoting and calling you dumbass for raising questions and concerns about bidets. I'm not bidet trained either, and I don't really have a strong opinion on them, but these responses almost make me want to take a stance against bidets.

I’ll preface my comment with the fact that I never saw a bidet until I was in my 30s, so I was never properly “bidet trained”, but I can tell you that at a glance the prospect of having a damp ass after every shit does not appeal to me. Particularly in humid regions where damp bodily areas leads chafing and rashes. It also looks like a lot more effort than just wiping and moving on with minimal difference in results.

That said, if you prefer bidets and have access to them, more power to you.

How the fuck can it possibly be overrated?

How big is your ass hole?

No, they really have laws like that.

https://cbos.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/721919/Bidet-douche-seats-backflow-prevention-requirements-Regulatory-Note.pdf

They seem to wholly misunderstand the device we're talking about.

You shouldn't be questioning him. He's not the one making the law.

Backflow for what? It just attaches to the cistern feed.

Still needs an RPZ in Australia, regulations for backflow protection are super stringent here.

for the record I was too lazy to install anything so I just have a squeeze bottle i use warm water in. no regs from big australia on that lol

That makes sense thanks for sharing, I guess other country probably have some other kind of protection by default.

Yes-

https://mccarthyplumbinggroup.com.au/blog/2022/05/26/can-i-install-a-bidet-myself/

To add, If you're even filling a bucket of water with a hose, it's against regulations if the end of the hose gets submerged, that's a 'cross connection'

It sounded to me like they were requirements to prevent snakes and spiders to crawl in from it.

You're talking about a full blown extra device. You can just add a bidet to your toilet seat.

Wow that is so complicated to install a simple hose. https://amzn.eu/d/2AN2BDt

It sounds like ‘Strayan plumbing code enforcement is funded by Big TP

I've always wondered this, but how do you prevent a bidet from festering? When dedicating, micro poop particles get everywhere in the bowl, and therefore my conclusion would be that it would get on the bidet spout. Over time, since it's moist, wouldn't a very thin microbial biofilm form on the spout? Then you'd be blasting in potentially dangerous bacteria back into yourself. Do you have to clean it after every use? Every day?

The only way I could see it maybe keeping clean would be if it was behind a small door that opened when it'll be in use and then retracted once more.

So far the most hygienic option would be wet wipes.

Depends where you are-

In many states of Australia installing a Bidet is extremely expensive as they they need to have a full RPZ backflow protection device (bulky and expensive - $600+ for the part) to prevent backflow. (simple and even double check valves aren't allowed for Bidets as they're considered 'high hazard')

Bidets are overrated. There, I said it.

Just don't flush them after

I keep a pack of wet wipes with me every time I travel. I never use them in the toilet, though. Just for cleaning my hands when eating street food.

Wipes clog up American plumbing also. They make giant fatbergs that workers have to go in and tear apart to unblock the sewers.

Spent $4000 on a plumbing repair because the previous owner flushed a bunch of wipes. The plumbers removed about 15 pounds of shitty wipes and then replaced the pipe.

https://kpel965.com/flushable-wipes-sewer-warning-louisiana-kaplan/

Oh, we definitely do. People commit huge crimes like flushing huge amounts of clothing down the line, which totally fucks up the pumps that move sewage up hills and over into bigger infrastructure. Many places used to have incinerators in the lines, but some people freak out that it's bad for the environment (as if putting biosolid shit into landfills isn't worse, which generates tons of methane). At least the incinerators used to burn up foreign objects and could run off the grease in shit and greywater alone.

Mostly a Spain thing. They don't even want you flushing toilet paper in Tenerife.

Unfortunately nobody told me that until the last day of the holiday...

Not sure about the majority of Europe but as far as I'm aware you can still find lead or ceramic pipes in parts of the UK. Some plumbing is still Victorian as well I think, thanks to a lack of investment from the water companies.

They already exist though look into a brand like cottonelle.

Dog poop for the fire gods

We have flushable dog poo bags and they're awesome. We've tested them and they dissolve after less than an hour in the toilet (maybe much sooner, but I got distracted and didn't time it).

The thing is that those aren't wet to begin with, like a wet wipe.

bleach wouldn't be allowed today either

That's only true if it's more profitable. Companies sell plenty of shit to Americans that is banned in other markets. We're basically a dumping ground for a lot of cheap "has been linked to cancer" products.

A lot of EU regulations will often cause an industry to standardize on their global products following the more strict standard.

Draft legislation that only applies in Europe/EU

Are you hitting a pay wall? I was able to open the actual article.

Didn't let Big Wet Wipe hear this! They will be furious! (But very fresh)

I'd imagine fossil fuel has a bigger lobby than wet wipe companies lmao

Have we though? This headline is "Spain aims to".

I doubt that cars and car infrastructure would be allowed today if we weren't already knee-deep in the shit they cause.

It's probably the worst invention ever.

Nobody has ever explained externalities to them clearly. Instead they just yell at them and call them fascists. So it's understandable why many of them don't get that they're paying for the damage the company places in public spheres.

Actually, there are! (Though it's classified as invasive in many places, so they really have to be carefully kept.)

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20241203-the-people-growing-their-own-sustainable-toilet-paper-plant

In the western US and Canada, thimbleberry leaves can also be used.

They are both great in theory, but in practice, you defoliate the plants too quickly, and you are still putting extra material down pipes. The best, least damaging solution are bidets, since they just use water, and don't require trees or plants to be cut down and pulped.

cool would be develop a plant whose only purpose is be there, in your bathroom, growing smooth ass leaves to wipe your ass.

Ok, so I checked a superstore near me, and my updated understanding is

1. anything disinfecting is alcohol based be it for skin or for for objects,

2. things designed for cleaning skin or to be "refreshing/fragrant" are mostly water based.

3. However there are skin cleaning products that are marketed more towards deep clean or dirt/oil/grease etc are almost always alcohol based.

4. cleaning objects intended wet wipes also mostly alcohol based. But if marketed as "gentle" could be water based.

So baby wipes being meant to clean skin and be "gentle", it makes sense that they are water based.

I see, maybe there are different types then. Mine are for an actual baby.

Maybe my understanding is wrong, and I don't use wet wipes that often, but the ones I have I bought like a year ago 60% ethanol v/v.

You light the ethanol and it burns off all the shit.

Got that mud butt?

Gets it fucking clean, I'll tell you that.

I prefer acetone and a map-gas torch.

Right? I use Goo B Gone

someone with 6inch thick skin.

Because ethanol forms an azeotrope with water, 100% ethanol is also considerably more expensive than ~95%

They're definitely not gonna use 100% ethanol haha

Would at least leave it super clean lmao

Chip clean room workers stealing stuff from the job rather than buy tp?

Who is out there wiping their ass with %100 ethanol?

I'm looking at a package of wet wipes right now and it says "99% water" on them

I understand it's "wet" from some alcohol/aldehydes and not from water.


No clue, but I have those here.

Tried it too. Left it in water and poof, disssolves after a while. (several minutes)

Must be different kind of water they come in would be my guess

They are different kind of wet, obviously

How do you make a wet wipe dissolve when its wet without dissolving when its wet

that doesnt sound pleasant, and poop might get caked up in the grate.

We need to install waffle grates in all toilets and just have a foot press that lets you push your poop in

I saw one that claimed "plumber approved" and it made me so mad we don't have meaningful laws against deceptive advertising.

I'd like really sewer-safe wet wipes. If tried several bidets and did not like them, definitely worse than wipes IMO.

One of the biggest bits of propaganda of all time.

Well it is recyclable, it's just so expensive most don't bother.

Conover, are you flushing golf balls again?!

Sometimes human waste isn’t flushable. Btw where do you keep your poop knife?

it's not a double negative. it's repetition for emphasis.

Vegan wool.

Wait. You're saying that sheep aren't plants?

>100% plant fibers

>wool sweaters

Wool

the sewer system definitely can **not** handle ~~neither~~ **either** of those.

Wooden roof beams are also 100% plant fibers, as are wool sweaters and the sewer system definitely can not handle neither of those.

No.

If it's not human waste or regular toilet paper, it's not flushable.

End.

Is it sold already wet within their packaging?

If it were water soluble, it would have already dissolved before you opened the packaging.

Doubtful. I think it's that they dont break down quickly enough and cause clogs.

It'll clog *some* household pipes regardless.

I remember reading a post from someone who worked for a flushable wipe company. They were getting complaints from the waste treatment plant but the they kept telling them that they are safe to flush and that the waste treatment plant were having issue were non flushable wet wipe baby wipe types. It got to the point where the guy from the wipe company had to go down there and get a lab analysis on them. All of the wipes that were blocking up the plant were wet ones and non flushable baby wipes. The conclusion was people are idiots and don’t read the labels.

It is regulated. Flushable means it doesn't clog household pipes. It doesn't say anything about the sewers and that's where the problem is.

By that logic anything small enough to fit in the pipe is flushable. Sounds like the word "flushable" on packaging needs to be regulated.

Saw it on history channel a many moons ago, the sewage treatment plants have difficulties with them.

But muh freedumbs!

Cold poop is just gross

\*Scurries into the corner and cowers over bowl of hot poop\*

I just think it was unnecessary, as I assumed people understood that you can *technically* flush these wipes.

Ah, right, I get it! It becomes a hidden problem that I can't see, just like I technically can't see you eating shit, because you hide while doing so.

Wow you made the same point I did!

Everything is flushable if you're brave enough and your toilet is big enough. I flush whole garbage bags and small appliances down my powerflush-9,000,000. The local water authority hates me, they have to keep a crew on standby at the end of my driveway to haul my garbage away after unclogging the sewers, but I write "flushable" on each one to taunt them so they know there's nothing they can do to stop me.

In all seriousness, we need to stop this anti-social behavior. It's a problem, the government needs to step in to protect consumers and municipalities and hold manufacturers accountable.

I mean, sure... Poop is also technically edible but you don't see me eating shit

My understanding is they are flushable (technically), it's just not good to flush them because they don't disintegrate or break down in water like toilet paper does. So it leads to clogs in pipes or sewer filtering equipment.

I wonder because the one I use is made 100% of plant fibers and a couple natural extracts like aloe vera. Is that flushable?

They are flushable, it just becomes a problem later on

I use a travel bidet. Squeeze bottle lol

I live in an RV, which has a special toilet designed to use very little water.

I don't think it would work even if I could afford to retrofit my bathroom, as water pressure is often an issue when traveling.

They have their own singular drawback with being a stain on the environment.

Seriously, just get a bidet

the drawbacks are that they’re made from cotton and plastics, which are all absolutely horrendous for the environment… cotton is among the worst offenders for water use, and polyester etc is bad in clothes let alone chucking an entire wet wipe multiple times per day

And FYI for any woman out there, these are better for health, as they don't blast bacteria from back to front. There was a study about it that I read several years ago, which I kept in mind when choosing a bidet. I went for a handheld one, too, and it's great.

Bidet showers are the best after a long workout, have your gym install one in the gym restroom for everyone to use

I use them for after exercise, so it's just sweat and dirt. I have been meaning to get a bidet, though.

I like the hand held ones. Better build quality for the price

How is that insane? I keep a tiny trash can with a step open lid next to the toilet specifically for that. The lid and frequently changing the bags prevent it from stinking, plus it uses way less water.

Personally I feel like they have all the benefits of bidets and TP, with none of the drawbacks.

I'll hold my dog over the bidet.

Insane. Just get a bidet. You can get one that just screws on under your toilet seat.

https://luxebidet.com/products/neo-185?srsltid=AfmBOoqXUtL8TUMjirj7N1KRtU92MBjeAgMYSEqoNU3G8EC4OzllseZq

No, they're definitely flushable. Just like my new product, flushable golf balls! Put them in your toilet, hit the plunger, and watch them disappear down the drain. Totally flushable!

They're fine to use, just put them in the trash when you're done.

My understanding is that none of them are flushable

**Edit:** Yes, you are able to flush them. I didn't think I needed to clarify that I meant whether flushing them will destroy your plumbing or not

Oh. Shoot. I’ve bought those in the past. So they’re lying about being flushable, I suppose.

Like "recyclable" plastic.

Wanna see something really gross...what is a fatberg

I don't ever remember seeing them here in Sweden. I can't even remember seeing an ad for wipes at all.

The only common "wipes" here are for babies, and even that isn't something everyone uses.

Edible wipes are the future! Invest now!

Flushable just means it will fit in the pipe. It doesn't mean it should be there.

Cottonelle claims that theirs break down and for a while they would fall apart when using them, so it could be true. Anything that just says flushable, though, is meaningless.

It blows my mind that I still see ads for "flushable" wipes

Yep. Make it the manufacturers' problem. They only care when it hits their wallet. Even if they pass on the costs, it'll make the wipes that actually dissolve properly cheaper and these are exempt.

We can do this with wet wipes, but carbon is a bridge too far?

Easily the weirdest demonstration of the. 'polluter pays' principle

A bidet is way cheaper and way better for everyone.

They should mandate bidets in all residential bathrooms like Italy imo

Nice move Spain. Seriously.

Anyone still cut the 6 pack plastic carrier to save turtles ? Anyone still confused why they still allow manufacturer to still use that plastic contraption?

That is because they don't care.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-pack_rings

if manufacturers were fined for their garbage, there would be much less garbage.

Fuck wet wipes

at least they have a backup plan of getting those companies to pay for the cleanup. That might be just slightly less impossible to make happen than people stop flushing them.

They can make what looks like plastic carrier bags that dissolve in water now so the manufacturers could I suspect make dissolvable wipes but will probably only do it when forced by law.

I'm aware there are maybe one or two brands that already do this (or claim to at least) but they all need to be doing it.

Spain is on a roll!

The hospital I work at had installed some kind of wipe catcher in most of the publicly accessable toilets. All you can see is a metal ring at the opening at the bottom of the toilet with a sign warning not to put your hand in there or you WILL get shredded. Apparently it has sharp bits that will snag wipes if you attempt to flush them.

Fuck these fucking things! Why do people tend to choose the most insane option when they are given a choice!?

**Ghetto-Takeaway-Bidet**

Punch a tiny hole in the neck of an empty 0,33ml PET plastic bottle. You can use a drill, a needle or a corkscrew. Fill it with water and squeeze it to spray your ass, vulva, whatever clean.

we need to return to wiping our asses with leaves

Finally. I have been waiting for this for years. I can finally wipe again

Toilet police serve and protect!

Test

I read the title and had to go to the article because my brain read pipes instead of wipes. I was trying to figure out how/why they were trying to transition to having dry pipes for water lines.

I guess they'll post a policeman in every toilet

What's up with Europes fragile plumbing? Does the US have this problem but it's never reported or what?