America is in danger of experiencing an academic brain drain

i like how its the same as getting shocked at falling birthrates, its been happening for the last 20 years. if you're earning a PHD in research consider europe as your backup plan.

very little such avenue exists for MS/BS holders in the stems though.

Of course. All good that happens is because Trump waved his glorious hand, while all evil is due to the mighty scheming of the weak Democrats, or something like that.

And then they will blame Democrats/immigrants for it

They'll notice they have lost ... something.

Oh they'll notice the loss...they just won't understand it

america has been declining for quite some time, and many universities actively look for foreigners to come to thier universities, because they pay a ton more in tuition, our school while its not a prestigious state school at all, not even on the "map" we got rich foreigners/out of state people coming here in droves.

as of late the school suffered so much enrollment issues in the last few years, they are early accepting HS students that hadn't graduated yet, and is willing to waive some courses. (many former and current students, including me were very displeased by the way the school is going in terms of thier students career progression, and the lack of certain things like STEM wet lab experience, which is the most important thing in those majors, they barely offer any.

I mean there are a few good actuate positive predictions. The family of laws that collectively are called Moore's law is decent offhand example.

Wow. Completely nailed it, unfortunately.

Do you also start to get weary of how they're always dead-on when it comes to *pessimistic* predictions? :(

Fuck.

when the guy was in a deep statis, it did shows the progression starting almost immediately, and funny thing it had a AI basically managing the whole society in the future.

That's what I said

The most ludicrous part of _Idiocracy_ is that the film makers thought the future it depicted would be 500 years away. Turns out, it was 20 years.

Brain Cistern

and its being clogged with invasive species.

Yep, from highschool onwards the education system is fully in English. It's pretty much an exact copy of the British system from that point on, thanks to the colonial past.

Does Malaysia do their classes in English?

ive seen a MS holder being a TA/partial teaching of the lab only. it seem extremely stressful, hopefully hes done with his PHD by now. there were many in undergrad class were pretty uncertain with thier future in the stem.

In EEng most positions in Germany are without mandatory teaching. Unless you want to, as you would need teaching experience to be eligible for a professorship.

Germany is actually really good if you have a full-time position, as the salary is somewhat comparable to a normal job, at least in CS/CE.

wish my CC dint made it thier mission that some of thier courses were as hard or harder than ivy leagues, they claimed its for "aligning" with certain transfer universities criteria(i personally think its bs, because i dint see an official memo of them saying its true), i think its meant to keep students perpetually(dropping retaking class, washing out of a class retaking it) in the cc so they can have a constant stream of funding.

Thank you for this. I couldn't find this for some reason.

These are places I would consider if I were able to go back to school:

• https://www.eng.mcmaster.ca/ece/degree-options/electrical-and-computer-engineering-phd/

• https://grad.uwo.ca/admissions/programs/program.cfm?p=41

• https://uwaterloo.ca/electrical-computer-engineering/doctor-philosophy-phd

• https://www.mcgill.ca/gradapplicants/program/electrical-engineering-phd

• https://www.sgs.utoronto.ca/programs/electrical-and-computer-engineering/

Finland has tuition free PhD programs for nationals of any country, Germany and Netherlands offer paid research positions where you basically are a full time student and still a part time lecturer - working hours can be tough though, since you need to balance the two. If you have some modest savings, Malaysia has some excellent universities and very cheap tuition (I'm doing my phd here and pay about 10k USD for a 3 year program) and cost of living is very low.

https://education.ec.europa.eu/news/research-opportunities-in-europe

Yeah, we gonna need loads of that for 7th gen fighters, resilient next-gen green smart grids, etc. Bon voyage!

PS: we're not better than the US, but at least our political systems can delay full fascist takeover for about 5-20 years...which may be enough time to reverse it politically or to at least create defenses against it.

So I am in no position to help you but I do have a very strange and hypothetical (ish) question:

How feasible would it be to hack a monitors firmware and use it to send and receive data, assuming that the data being sent is encoded on, say, the green color channel of said monitor and you had an sdr or some specially configured device set up somewhere to help make this very specific and bizarre idea work?

"Efforts launched in regions including Europe, Canada, Australia and China range from enhanced funding opportunities to new programmes dedicated to wooing scientists, many backed by tens of millions of dollars. The trend has sparked a debate about whether luring US scientists abroad is the best way to support a global research community whose leading entity is under strain — and whether other nations can compete with historically high US levels of research funding." - Nature Article. Source: The Article

why would you laugh at that??

Europe and China have *already succeeded* in poaching scientists that way, so not sure why it'd make you laugh.

Who, for example? Poor Europe? Russia? China? Don't make me laugh.

The citations metric is also slanted, because pretty much all countries will cite english papers regardless of the language of the paper being written, but all non anglo countries also produce a significant part of papers in the local language, which are much less likely to get cited.

i believe this is because american universities have access to the most resources with which to perform expensive, difficult, but rewarding research. Those resources are now being stripped away. If another country is willing to supply the necessary resources for expensive research then researchers will go there. Source - am scientist.

This is the THIRD time the Republicans have cancelled funding to my research projects over the course of 15 years. This country isn't conducive to stable research work.

The projects cancelled were on senior care tech with smart homes, augmented reality to help prevent falls, and air quality feedback to help people during wildfire seasons. No exactly hotbeds of controversial topics, but having my career and livelihood jerked around against and again by these assholes is enough for me to go. The lastest bend to fascism was just the nail in the coffin.

Tell that to the hundreds of researchers who have their entire research programs and funding prospects thrown into the air, and/or outright cancelled.

Nope. Or at least not necessarily.

The ranking that generally gets cited to that end judges universities by research output, which is generally not what you're looking for when you're looking for a good education -- you want a university that's good at teaching, not good at producing papers and citations. You want a professor that's not busy producing papers, because they were hired to produce papers, you want one that actually teaches.

It's also slanted heavily in favour of Anglo countries when it comes to looking at the "producing papers" metric alone: Pretty much all other countries produce the bulk of their papers at research institutes, which don't show up in the list because they're not universities. If they were included IIRC Max Planck would top the list. Granted, that's also to a large degree because they're absolutely massive, a large number of institutes under a common roof.

Used to be the best in the world.

thats not true anymore, several universities already have been sanctioned by trump either through cutting funding, or anyone that expressed pro-palestinian views. as others have said you cant really be a scientist in a oppressive enviroment, when even your motives a scientist could be questioned as enemy of the state.

also salary is higher in the usa than anywhere else too.

I don’t really know why anybody would want to come here anymore for university

I mean if my advisor can secure the funding, the two reasons I plan on doing my PhD in America are (1) I like my advisor and (2) I went to school here and I don't like my chances of being accepted somewhere else. Like I would rather do a PhD in literally any other country.

People move here for university at the higher end because there is no where else in the world where you will have more access to research money. Whether government or private sector. Although this may no longer be the case under Trump.

and the job markets in the us are pretty unstable as it is, especially lot of biotech is preferentially hiring H1B visa holders anyways over citizens, if you dont have a Doctorates.

the problems at the BS/MS level is the low amount of lab experience that is given to students, and universities make it very hard to get them in general.

Also educated people tend to vocally disagree with fascists, so obviously fascists wants fewer of them around.

There are definitely varying degrees as to how far that phenomenon has taken hold, and it has done so to a much larger degree in the US than in a lot of other countries. There is not really any point in trying to relativise this, it is not "business as usual", this is radicalisation on a 1930s Germany level.

I'd argue that's the case in most countries. Almost all ppl need is a singular common enemy to turn off their brain and latch onto facism. Ppl are so quick to accept the easiest solution to all their problems is getting rid of the foreigners. Propaganda wasn't created in the US, it just it's most recent victim

Yeah but many Americans are illiterate receptacles of propaganda so there ya go. 😔

That threshold is like, slightly below average intelligence

not if you have a PHD, or a MD in some specialty, they always in need of those. but to "immigrate" normally it might be more difficult unless you are rich.

Anyone with the brains is doing everything in their power to get out ASAP unless they're nearing retirement, have elderly parents or close relatives, etc.

You cannot do legitimate science under fascist or fundamentalist governance. Too much of reality is considered wrongthink.

But are we though? Because based on my research, it's a lot harder to get into the EU than it used to be like 10 years ago. It's not as if anti-immigration sentiment isn't picking up there either.

Clearly I'd be more helpful in El Salvador

That's what everyone who voted for Trump basically said. America was founded on this principle. You give what you get

So what would you have them do instead?

>Ive paid my dues, fuck everyone else

Lol.

It is, and I'm well aware of just how hard it is to be in my kind of position. I'm leaving very soon for a job overseas.

It took 12 years of college. It took massive debts that I spent a decade earning to pay off. It took a further 15 years of competing in academia to become a desirable candidate for the job. I'm taking a serious pay cut and spending the saving from a decade of work to make the move.

Its a privilege, but having come from a family that valued education, but had little money to help me, I kinda feel like I've earned it. Decades of effort on my part went into this.

You can be pissed all you want, but I've paid my dues and I'm spending them on a better and safer future for my children away from the US Banana Republic of Dumbfuckistan.

They weren't bragging. They stated their situation and experience because it's relevant to the article, which is about academics.

It's not bizarre to shame someone for bragging about the ability to just up and leave to a country halfway across the world.

Most Americans do not have that kind of privilege. It must be nice.

Fucking bizarre take to lob at someone fleeing a country rapidly falling to fascism and ethnic cleansing.

You are displaying crab bucket mentality.

What I mean is that, with any individual — you start with what you can control. Whatever that sphere of influence might be, your immediate surroundings make up a large part of what you're actually capable of influencing.

You can't fight a fire from 3000 miles away. I get that we're not all capable of running into a burning building, but you're severely overestimating (and underestimating, oddly enough — but in different directions) an individual's ability to affect real change.

Depends on what kinds of new narratives and role models they find to latch on to.

They are currently in an information bubble created largely by Russia, China, and Iran.

I'd love to see a liberal democratic media machine to counter Putin's Agency

Idk, that's certainly an optimistic view of a very bad thing happening.

It isn't going to be *just* MAGA suffering, and if everyone with a brain *leaves* — there's no telling what kind of system will fill the void. I think it's unrealistic to assume these people will course correct on their own simply because bad things have happened to them.

Yes. I understand the desire for more bodies, but the world isn't black and white, and not everyone is able to fight.

To elaborate on my own situation, my demographics make me and my community VERY vulnerable to this administration. While the desire to help each other is there, resources are slim and everyone is struggling to sort out their own survival. A lot of the community is also disabled and reliant on others.

Now that I'm out of that, I actually have the capacity to offer support. I'm still very connected to everyone I know and love back home, but now I have the backing of a new community that is very understanding of the situation and able to offer resources. I personally can offer travel advice, a place to crash temporarily, and a safe landing to anyone who decides to follow suit. We also have established safe houses along the way. Since we made the decision to leave, my partner and I have received nothing but love and support from both communities.

Not everyone is a Fighter or a Paladin. Some are better at offering support from a distance.

TBH if the economy crashes HARD for the next 3.5 years that may help wean some MAGA away from their FOX/OAN/RT propaganda bubble

US cant be helped, its pretty much beyond saving at this point, and besides most of them are complicit or blisfully ignorant of the situation. by the way WITHOUT immigration usa wouldve been just like russia in the end.

Oh, these Russians, they manage to get everywhere without any lubricant.

And you're implying the people proudly turning their backs on the U.S. are going to do something to help the citizens of the U.S.?

Seems like twisted logic, to me.

i have no idea what that means, he means to get fat and fight them.

Make room for those that will fight

Hahahaha

You don't need to be in the USA to fight.

The fight was won by Russian troll farms operating in Iran.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

smart people leave and fight another day, dumb ones stay and become either fodder, or become "Slaughtered by the regime". especially people in the sciences will improve other sectors in other countries that USA will never have again. the only ones that fight, is if they get trapped and unable to move abroad. i know you're a troll like on reddit, but this how its always been, look at ww2 poland, germany,,,etc.

I'm in a similar boat, except I'm waiting to find out if my multinational will be willing to move me. I'm the lead developer, admin, product owner, and architect for a *very* publicly-facing web presence for my company, so I'm hoping they'll be willing to in order to keep me happy.

And if they won't, I'm going to be applying for similar jobs abroad the moment I know.

It's not just for me. My son is trans and my daughter is gay. I **have** to get them both out of here before the ovens start firing up.

If you get the impression that at this point I believe the U.S. is a lost cause, you're correct. If we make it to the 2026 elections intact, the elections are valid, and Democrats sweep, I'll be extremely surprised.

Not OP, but I did the same, when I first realized the US was on a slippery slope towards idiocracy (and, in fairness, I realized it three decades after many intellectuals already warned about it). In my case, I was fortunate to work for a multinational, which agreed to transfer me to a country within the EU, and to take care of the paperwork. Over a decade later, I have citizenship here, my own house, and I feel fully integrated into the local society. And I don't need to worry about college tuition for my kids. They'll have a choice of free education anywhere within the EU, and by the time they're old enough, they may have access to a wide variety of educators who left he US.

Getting a work/student visa takes a lot of time so start it early. It's generally easiest to get PR through work or study.

But it's only one piece of the puzzle. My partner and I spent 2 months before we moved going through everything we own and deciding what to get rid of. We got rid of about half of our stuff, anything you don't get rid of will have to go through customs, not to mention figuring out how to physically move your stuff.

Once you get to a new place, setting up is also its own logistical nightmare. You won't have any credit established so getting an apartment or credit card might be difficult to start. You also need a bank account, which might have its own requirements.

And then there's the social part of it. I'm lucky that my community is international and I was very quickly able to find my people, but if you don't know anyone you're going to be very lonely until you do. Try to make some friends before you move.

Yeah I was like, "In danger of? Bro it's already happening".

Yuuup. Trump getting elected once was the writing on the wall, I wasn't going to wait and hope he didn't manage to return to power. Turns out that was a great decision, the Netherlands are amazing.

Any particular resources you found helpful in your move? My main concern is how to make the visa work and how to find a livable wage abroad

Where did ya go?

I do sure love it when cowards leave the country instead of remaining here to vote in their interest. To everybody patting themselves on the back for leaving America, you’re part of the fucking problem

More privilege on display from the elite in American society.

And also bragging about it. Gross.

If more of you cowards can run away that would be great. Make room for those that will fight, but please dont come back when we the people rip it all down.

College educated skilled worker. I already left. I'm not looking back. Thanks Trump for making me realize how much the US was holding me back

Of course. We have people in government who don't believe in germ theory. Education is extremely expensive, and if you don't pick a "Good" major, not only are you in debt, but shamed and mocked for it, since no one "forced" you to go. Jobs that require these degrees, even doctors, are not paying enough for people to live, study, and afford food. Why would you stay?

I think at this point, the danger has crystallized pretty thoroughly. Even if you somehow stopped everything that was currently happening, I don’t really know why anybody would want to come here anymore for university. Getting a degree is already stressful enough without having to worry about whether or not the institution will legally be allowed to keep you enrolled for the entire duration of your program.

Unironically I would be literally thrilled to contribute to this brain drain. I'd drop everything and get on a plane _**right this very second**_ for a chance to do a PhD in literally any other country.

If anyone is looking to fill a electrical engineering PhD position literally anywhere but America then I'm ya boy.

Brain drain? They're flushing them!

"in danger"

Why is it that all these articles seem to be written in the past?

Unless you're a true sociopath ready to take advantage of the situation, past a certain threshold of intelligence and knowledge being surrounded by MAGAmericans and propaganda aimed at them, and knowing your country can only get worse, must feel like torture.

“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”

― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark(1995)

Anyone with the brains and means is welcome in EU! Several member nations are setting up funds for exactly this reason.

I am *not* going to miss the "pax" Americana, but it's sad seeing this and knowing that the world's total rate of scientific advancement will go down considerably for at least a decade.

*American* science will suffer. But you don't care for science in the US, anyway, so most people won't even notice the loss.

It's part of the plan. If you can't win over the more left-leaning academia, you can always just get rid of it. Worked out for both Hungary and Russia.

In *danger*? We've been experiencing that for decades now and it's now taking a nosedivem

Idiocracy had their time predictions wrong, it's already nearly there.

Good! Let me know where they set up shop so I can move there.

Does it count as being in danger if it's the ultimate goal?

There's no way I'd send my kids to Harvard or MIT (or Stanford, Caltech, Yale, Princeton, etc. etc.) if I were a foreigner. Shit, I am an American and I think I'd probably prefer to send my kids to McGill at this point. I hope my outlook changes. And I write this as someone who has walked the halls of two of those prestigious universities.

https://archive.ph/L9Lrn

Come on, who in their right mind would leave the American academic environment? You can say whatever you want, but universities in America are the best in the world.