Greta Thunberg Was Headed for Gaza Before Boat Was Attacked by Israeli Drones, Activists Say

Hey - anyone remember when George Bush Sr helped spread lies about Iraqis throwing babies out of incubators?

>In January 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah had never been a nurse and that she was the daughter of Saud Nasser Al-Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States at the time the testimony was made. She and her father were members of the House of Sabah, the ruling family of Kuwait. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of a wider public relations campaign conducted by the Kuwaiti government-in-exile's Citizens for a Free Kuwait, which sought to encourage American military involvement against Iraq's occupation of Kuwait through coordination with the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton. In the aftermath of the Gulf War, the Nayirah testimony came to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.[1][2]

>Is it just acceptable to routinely slaughter non combatants without recourse?


Is Israel a rogue state?)

>James Henry Dominic Miller (18 December 1968 – 2 May 2003) was a Welsh cameraman, producer, and director, and recipient of numerous awards, including five Emmy Awards. He was killed by Israel Defense Forces (IDF) gunfire while filming a documentary in the Gaza Strip.[1] Miller worked regularly with Saira Shah for several years, and they formed a business partnership to operate an independent production company called Frostbite Productions in 2001.

>The Israeli Military Police investigation into Miller's death closed on 9 March 2005 with an announcement that the soldier suspected of firing the shot would not be indicted as they could not establish that his shot was responsible, though he would be disciplined for violating the rules of engagement and for changing his account of the incident.[2] On 6 April 2006, the inquest jury at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that Miller had been "murdered."[1] Forensic experts from London Metropolitan Police concluded that the bullets were consistent with those used by the IDF. After meetings with the Miller family, the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, sent a formal request to his Israeli counterpart in June 2007 for prosecution proceedings to be enacted within six weeks against the soldier responsible for firing the shot.[3] The requests were ignored by the Israeli government and prosecution proceedings have never been held.

Like, didn’t we freak out (justifiably) when North Korea killed an American kid? Is it just acceptable to routinely slaughter non combatants without recourse?

You can hate two things.

You know the answers to all of those questions.

No mystery here.

Mystery tribalism, how exciting.

Your people? My people? Excuse me?? Who the hell do you think you are? Who the hell do you think I am?

I know it's hard to accept it, but it's been a while since my people haven't had to listen to your people.

World News is not Lemmy, and looking at posts doesn't determine the population make-up of Lemmy users. Neither does posts about White News, whatever that means, determine the race of then poster.

Take a stroll through the posts on this community and tell how many of the "World News" are actually White News. Keep in mind white people make less than 10% of the population.

Source?

Fuck chihuahuas though, right?

This isn't the Internet. This is Lemmy, which skews male and white.

which racism? this is the Internet, no one knows you're dog!! OR which breed, for that matter.

I could be 24/7 on Lemmy and still do less harm for the environment than Greta ever will by simply just existing. You need to let go of your internalized racism.

Well, that was a swing and a miss. Thanks for making me smile.

Leave it to the white man to dismiss the impact of their parasitic race on the entirety of the world as "modern American race politics". Oh, how I would love to have the privilege to afford to be as uneducated as you. Do you just namedrop shit you have no knowledge of or have you looked at the fallout of your stupid examples? Hint: Oligarchy.

Why yes, I'm *am* pissy at white people. You thinking that pointing it out is some kind of "ah-ha" moment just showcases obliviousness. I do believe you're at least curious to understand, though. Unfortunately, explaining it would require a longer response than I'm willing to type right now so I'll leave you with some links:

https://www.healthline.com/health/white-saviorism

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/09670106211024419

https://www.greeneuropeanjournal.eu/the-politics-of-representation-in-the-climate-movement/

Basically, white people getting involved into the problems of non-white societies very often leads to erasure and colonialism.

I'm a white dude, and this reads like you're just pissy, but I'm open to the idea I might be wrong or blinded due to my privilege.

Please explain what you're getting at? If I'm in the wrong about this, I would love to know and become better.

You do see the problem, right?

Yes, you're it.

Successful in their aims.

What on earth makes you think I was referring to "white people" getting involved in non-white struggle???? Modern American race politics is meaningless in the context of the last thousand years of historical change.

I recommend you get yourself a copy of, say, The People's History of the World and read up on social change in ancient Rome, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Caliphates etc.

What I am talking about is simply a matter of historical record.

A specifically non-white non-western example I can give you off the top of my head is the importance of the involvement of warrior caste people like Adbaraya Toya in the Haitian revolution.

Successful for whom? You do see the problem, right?

To add to this: You do see the irony in replying to a post about white activism and its hypocrisy with "well, activism works better when white people get involved"? Right? RIGHT?

!I didn't realize someone could be this stupid, thank you

Historically speaking, successful social change for the better, eg revolutions, has almost always come only when certain middle class/privileged people joined with underprivileged people.

Attacking anyone who is richer or whiter than yourself, when they are on the same side as you, is stupid.

Buddy, please, log off.

What are you even talking about ?

Damn. What a sad little man.

Your bits are contamination. Go offline Steve, have a nice day.

Yet you lick the boots of harmful billionaires who give fuck back to society and take everything from the working class. Yea, greta is the problem, not bezos or musk or other greedy sociopaths

impossible!

well that’s a false dilemma if i ever saw one

Right, white people aren't allowed to be activists. Instead they should *removed* and moan in internet comment sections about activists not doing enough or not doing the right things while doing nothing themselves.

Dude. It’s a bad troll. Just stop replying

white savior complex

This is ridiculous. What would Greta have to do to earn your respect, huh? You're really gonna ask "why wasn't she on the boat" as if she planned for the humanitarian aid vessel to be drone striked the day before she was going to board it? The fuck are you doing?

arrogant, just looking for big words now?

did you notice her name hasn’t been in the news for a while? climate change didn’t stop being a problem…

she’s sticking her face into something she has no expertise with… why wasn’t she on the boat then? risking your life isn’t that noble if you’re not doing anything with it. she’s not good at navigating boats or unloading them, she has no callouses on her hands… she has no purpose for being on that boat other than symbolism

She is both a climate activist and advocate for Palestinian liberation, and framing her risking her life to demonstrate solidarity with the Palestinians as a shallow attempt at staying famous is incredibly ignorant and arrogant.

She lives in the woods and scavenges for pine beetles and bark for nourishment. She really cares, and she isn't being groomed to be a politician who gets kickbacks for green washing.

People can care about more than one thing at a time.

Even if you are evil as fuck, there are better and dare I say, cheaper, options to commit your war crimes.

It does make sense. But only if you accept certain facts about the morality of the Israeli administration.

Specially as far as Malta. That doesn't make even sense.

No, bad journalism. This is an important, overlooked, under covered story. I don't particularly care about Thuneberg or her location, but Israel bombing humanitarian aid ships should be much more widely reported.

literal clickbait

also Greta is a well known climate activist… now trying to keep herself famous by almost riding boats to israel….

it is very important, but i see no reason to listen to her about this.

in fact, attaching her name to this is extremely counterproductive….

Never said that, you said that.

Adjust your settings then, don't cry to us.

I believe you can use filters on lemmy to block certain keywords you don't like. That might make your experience more enjoyable

Because shot i don’t subscribe to is being spammed all over the fucking fediverse.

It's big enough for most people to care. If you personally don't care then why don't you personally shut the fuck up and let other people care?

Like what? Seriously, what is way worse?

It’s a biggie, but honestly I could give 2 shits. There’s way worse to worry about.

Just another good ol' war crime or maybe another complete disregard of international law, or an act of aggression towards a sovereign nation depending on where the bombing happened. No biggie right ?

I read it was international waters, but that's even worse if that's true...

Were those truly international waters? Being just 17km from Malta suggests they were within Malta's territorial waters. This matter should be addressed promptly. However, without a European army, tyrants can act with impunity. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Would this be considered piracy? Not the "would you download a car" type, but the old school type. That was not a military ship and was not carrying military equipment.

Or would this instead be considered an act of terrorism?

So?

Israel bombed a ship in international waters. That ship was filled with supplies and headed to Gaza.

Yes, because she established herself as an outstanding activist. You act like she stumbled across a "famous activist" position on LinkedIn and has been half-assing it the whole time which is an absurd characterization of what she has done with her life.

Nobody is saying she "better" than you or your activist buddies, but she deserves a bit more respect for what she has accomplished than "bottom 20% of activists"

She's been given stages and microphones and interviews. You think boat rides into Gaza are free? She is given the opportunity to do more, she isn't inherently better.

Also, many US States haven't reported how many of which age groups voted, it's difficult to find any data on the subject compared to who they voted for and other demographic labels like ethnicity or gender. There are some claims that 18 to 29yo were 47% voter turnout but only a fraction of those are considered millennial and voter turnout increases with degree level. And Greta Thunberg isn't from the US, she is from Sweden.

Yeah, that's true, but it was pretty cringe for a while when people started posted photoshopped pornography of her. Not just one or two either, like a whole campaign of it.

critical assessment

and exactly when was this presented?

Stop making shit up and moving the goalposts.

I would describe your resistance to any critical assessment or reproach of this figure as akin to "dogmatic faith".

no they don't. This entire discourse is like chris farley's bus driver.

Maybe not you or me but there are definitely a few out there.

Let’s not worship the one activist.

no one was worshipping the kid, stop reframing reality for your issues.

Voting is a pretty low bar for having an opportunity to make a difference with little effort, and only 42% managed that in the US.

What "opportunity" would 80% of people do better? She was skipping school to protest climate change at 15. She made her own opportunities.

If my 99.999% figure is worship, then the numbers you're throwing around seem overly dismissive of her efforts, to put it lightly.

I like Greta but to play devil's advocate I think 80% of people her age and millennials in general would do as much or more given the same opportunities. Let's not worship the one activist. There are loads of activists fighting the exact same battles that would probably be lucky if 30 people knew their name.

It truly is, its the most downvotes I've seen a comment get yet.

So... within the last few months... she promoted her own cryptoshitcoin... and then it got rugpulled... and then people got mad at Ms. Tuah... and then Ms. Tuah said pretty much it was all her manager's idea, and that she got screwed as well...????

Some kind of idiocy like that.

I would actually believe she is so stupid that she herself was conned into promoting a shitcoin and legitimately had no idea ... what they actually do, how they work.

Which is better than being intentionally evil, but not by very much, as she cost her followers a lot of money.

... Something like that is what Ms. Tuah is up to these days, rofl.

Is that hawk tuah chick still around? I saw some Instagram clips showing her trying to sell some shit on a podcast I never saw before, and then literally never again.

But did she turn a single viral moment into a career? I would argue that publicity itself doesn’t seem to be her career, whereas activism clearly is the main thing. The way I see it, publicity is a tool she uses to enhance her activism

That's the argument I was trying to make too, sorry if I was unclear 🙂

Oh, she certainly knows how to use publicity. No doubt about that. Also, I totally approve of using the tools at your disposal. If you’re an activist, and the media is interested in you, using that opportunity is perfectly fine be me.

But did she turn a single viral moment into a career? I would argue that publicity itself doesn’t seem to be her career, whereas activism clearly is the main thing. The way I see it, publicity is a tool she uses to enhance her activism.

BTW that Twitter bio thing was brilliant.

I have a feeling that she would have ended up being an activist with or without any viral moments

Kind of a "yes and no" kind of thing: she became an activist back when she was just an unknown 15yo who believed in something, and the "viral moments" have all been the results of effective activism (with the exception of some hilarious trolling of some prominent far right idiots), which is part of what effective activism IS: getting as many people as possible to notice and talk about the issues.

Manufactured Consent, the media is pro-genocide.

It is funny that she was a media darling up until the moment she started talking about Gaza. Same thing happened to Malala. You won't see either of those on cable or in talk shows any more.

Pretty standard maga it would seem. No wonder we can’t have nice things.

So, people dedicate their lives to improving the world and that just pisses you off?

So you like her then?

She is a career humanitarian and environmentalist

You just repeated exactly what I said.

Your complaint was that it had mostly been met with silent downvotes.

Which tracks with my point.

If that were true, why has my mild criticism been met with such derision?

No, the dems undermined the dems in the US. Greta is just reacting to the bad shit that the dems served in response to the republican's worse shit when they could have actually served some proper good shit.

Greta undermined the dems in the US campaign. Perhaps not enough to cost them the election, but not very bright regardless.

Given everything that has happened in the last few months that's pretty shameful.

Well both sides support Israel, therefore both sides are bad.

She was pushing the both sides narrative during the US campaign.

How has she been counterproductive?

Sure, but my point is that lots more people have been a lot more effective than Greta, who IMO has been counter productive.

Are you implying that a vote for the democrats is tantamount to making peace with slavers?

Maybe take a moment to reflect on the last several months. The republicans are implementing a new slave class. What have you done to stop them?

No. Not everyone.

People who voted for McClellan during the civil war instead of Lincoln weren't trying to do the right thing.

They were trying to make peace with slavers.

They were trying to be complicit with slavery.

Everyone is trying to do the right thing, some are more effective than others.

Spoken like someone who would have voted for McClellan during the civil war to make peace with the south.

No it very much is political, political simply means 'relating to govt. conduct/policy'.

Eating grapes is political if the govt. decides that everyone needs to eat grapes and sets policies towards that end. Obviously speaking with hyperbole, but you understand my point.

So yes, I would say it's a political decision to decide to end a genocide - especially when the genocide is being carried out by local govt. The choice of whether or not to end a genocide should be obvious.

Of course its political. A political solution is required in order to end the violence.

Trying to prevent genocide isn’t political. Would you have said trying to stop Hitler from gassing the Jews in concentration camps was too political?

The left will always lose for our 'complex feelings'

Reaching out the other side by doing what? Burning the planet?

This mission was delivering aid to gaza, a highly politicised topic.

Yes of course. But she doesn't need to appeal to the American electorate for her job. I'm not sure what point you think you're making?

She had plenty to say about three candidates during the US election, which has had a big impact on Europe and the rest of the world.

Why compare a European activist to two American politicians?

Of course they try to get on with the American right, they need their votes.

Harris.

Do you know any examples of people who **are** able to reach the people who need to change?

you're making shit up, do you personally know her that she has ulterior motive

No, I said it up top. She's unable to reach the people who need to change, and she's actively undermined those who can.

It's great that you love her, but you don't need to hear her message, do you.

Right? Like what is his argument?

“I don’t like Greta because she doesn’t cater to everybody.”

shes everything they are not.

This is hyperbolic.

AOC and Bernie are doing it. Are they not decent human beings?

Then why do you keep posting?

No that's true, you don't need to have any credibility to say anything you like, but when you say things that demonstrate a complete lack of reason it undermines everything else you say.

I don't need any credibility to say that Kamala border wall/fracking/"most lethal army in the world"/"Nothing comes to mind" Harris was anything short of absolutely terrible.

I mean she's right. We can argue about the tactical merits and demerits of endorsing Harris all day but the fact of the matter is that she was an absolutely terrible candidate

Sorry, if that's your opinion, having installed a fascist dictator who has ruined the global economy and set up concentration camps, then you don't have any credibility.

So she reduced the chance of successful delivery in order to secure publicity in the near certainty that the aid could not be delivered?

Maybe just me but that doesn't seem like a good strategy.

She's unable to engage with the right because she's a...

Decent Human Being

..We'll see if Elon can do it, he's a piece of shit, they should find him very relatable.

She is not a "hero to the leftists" as much as someone trying to do the right thing. Hats off to her, but the average aid worker in a war zone is more of a hero.

If the goal is more publicity rather than the aid that had a low chance of making it through, it is very smart to have a world famous influencer aboard.

Why do you assume she endangered the others rather than they chose to take a calculated risk?

>I mean, putting a world famous influencer on a humanitarian mission to a place where the aggressors want as little attention as possible isn't really a sound strategy.

How? If anything it is sound strategy because it puts the media's eyes on the event. It's one thing to kill a bunch of nameless activists, but it's another to kill Greta Thunberg, or at least I'd like to believe it is.

>One is that Greta is the hero of the leftists, but she's unable to engage with the right - the people who really need to alter their behavior.

They're never gonna change their behavior, or at least not due to messaging from the left. The right will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to civilization by the sane two thirds of society. Trying to get the right on board with good things is a fool's errand. In general, the role of leftwing activists is to either promote their own politicians or force neoliberals' hands, not persuade the right.

>During the US campaign she was pushing the "both sides bad" narrative.

I mean she's right. We can argue about the tactical merits and demerits of endorsing Harris all day but the fact of the matter is that she was an absolutely terrible candidate and "What the shit? You want me to endorse *that*‽" is a valid position to take no matter how you personally feel about it. Greta didn't get where she is now by compromising with neoliberals and there's no reason to expect her to start now.

Well neither side has done enough, if anything, about people dying in Gaza.

>Edit: I’m happy to wear the drive-by downvotes, but I had hoped for some more compelling rebuttals

The perfect is the enemy of the good. It's that simple. Nothing you've said really makes sense as an argument for why Greta Thunberg shouldn't do what she does. It's just an argument that we also need other people contributing other things.

The rest of the world is not USA my man, my country has at least 10 political parties that go anywhere from progressive to conservative and being "right wing" can still mean they have ideas that support the environment or human rights.

We're not all like the USA where you can choose between "the right" and the "ultra right" wing party.

There are right wing parties here that support Gretas ideas. And left wing parties that disagree with her.

I can completely understand her "both sides are bad" point since politics are wildly different in the EU from the US. We have actually choice here where as the US is just voting for the lesser evil (or the greater evil in case of Trump lol).

I have complex feelings regarding Greta.

Sure, she's an inspiration and she's courageous and selfless and her heart is in the right place.

Other people were on this boat who were also at risk, many other atrocities have occurred during this war and the one in Ukraine in which Greta wasn't present. Her involvement in this one is not why it's significant, and the people present at all the others were no less courageous than Greta.

In fact, there's a lot of other people being a lot more courageous receiving a lot less recognition.

Additionally, in some cases the recognition Greta receives is counter-productive. I mean, putting a world famous influencer on a humanitarian mission to a place where the aggressors want as little attention as possible isn't really a sound strategy.

All that aside, I have two main concerns:

One is that Greta is the hero of the leftists, but she's unable to engage with the right - the people who really need to alter their behavior. To them she's just an insufferable child who makes them feel guilty - that's not how you reach people and propagate change.

Second is that, I don't think she's used her influence very well. During the US campaign she was pushing the "both sides bad" narrative.

Edit: I'm happy to wear the drive-by downvotes, but I had hoped for some more compelling rebuttals - 150 downvotes deep and the best we've received is that Kamala was bad.

Uh... What the fuck man? This woman was going to an active warzone to deliver aid to genocide victims. Let me repeat, *she was headed to an active warzone where aid workers have routinely been targeted and murdered*. If you think that's making a career out of a viral moment then you need to fuck off.

No, that would be like uh... Ms. Hawk Tuah.

Greta is what you call an activist: Someone who actually believes things and advocates for change based on her beliefs.

When I was in school, this kind of behavior was referred to as a politically involved/informed, active citizen, the kind of people without which a democratic society cannot survive or function.

How to consistently stand up for your morals and do more to make a difference than 99.999% of people on this planet.

Sorry that offends you so much.

She is a career humanitarian and environmentalist. You, on the other hand, haven’t done a damn thing with your life.

Damn, that's an impressive number of down-votes!


User name checks out.

I have a feeling that she would have ended up being an activist with or without any viral moments. Sure, that sort of thing helps, but she doesn’t strike me as the type of person who is out there just for the clicks and likes.

Now that she's spoken out against genocide, I can no longer tell if the people who hate her are democrats or republicans.

So to you she's doing that for attention? What are you waiting for to get on a boat to bring aid to Gaza?

Have another downvote, on the house.

I'm sure you have done plenty more, right?

Username checks out.

The Zionist Regime is amazingly out of touch. I know on some level they don't care, but even their propaganda targeted at populations of allied countries is bizarre and making their audience second-guess them.

I saw it more as a message. I think they probably knew she wasn't on the boat at the time, but are showing them that they could end them at any moment if they so please.

Not that I think these people give a shit, particularly Greta. That girl is fearless. If anything, this is just Streisand Effect for their flotilla and her message.

So well done, Israel.

Trump would've sent them a bouquet as thanks

>thought she may have been dead,

If Israel had its way she would be.

Read the title and thought she may have been dead, scared the crap out of me. Glad everyone is safe. Crazy stuff

It says the boat was carrying her, and later says she planned to board later that day. Plus the headline. Confusing.

The Nazis also bombed/besieged the port at Malta. History rhymes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid an incident from 2010 where IDF soldiers boarded a humanitarian ship and ten people were killed among a large numbers of others wounded. in case anyone thinks this wasn't a big deal

Israel just loves killing activists, doesn’t it?

>Rachel Aliene Corrie (April 10, 1979 – March 16, 2003) was an American nonviolence activist and diarist.[1][2] She was a member of the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement (ISM)[3] and was active throughout the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories. In 2003, she was in Rafah, a city in the Gaza Strip, where the Israeli military was demolishing Palestinian houses at the height of the Second Intifada. While protesting the demolitions as they were being carried out, she was killed by an Israeli armored bulldozer that crushed her.[4][2][5][6]

[…]

>Corrie went to Gaza as part of her college's senior-year independent-study proposal to connect Olympia and Rafah with each other as sister cities.[7] While in Rafah on March 16, 2003, she joined other ISM activists in efforts to nonviolently prevent Israel's demolition of Palestinian property,[2][8][9] where she was killed by an Israeli bulldozer that crushed her.

Physicians present and fellow ISM activists stated that Corrie had been wearing a high-visibility vest and was deliberately driven over, while the Israeli army said that it was an accident because the bulldozer operator did not see her.[10][11][12][13] Following the incident, an Israeli military investigation concluded that Corrie's death was the result of an accident and that the bulldozer operator had limited visibility. The ruling attracted criticism from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, and Yesh Din.[14][15][16] HRW stated that the ruling represented a pattern of impunity for Israeli forces.[14]

“a pattern of impunity for Israeli forces” *back in 2003*

>In 2005, Corrie's parents filed a civil lawsuit, charging the Israeli state with not conducting a full and credible investigation into the case and therefore holding responsibility for her death.[17] They contended that either she had been intentionally killed or the Israeli soldiers on scene had acted with reckless neglect.[5] They sued for a symbolic US$1 in damages. However, an Israeli court rejected their suit in August 2012 and upheld the results of the military's investigation, ruling that the Israeli government was not responsible for Corrie's death,[5] again attracting criticism from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and various activists.[14][15][16] An appeal against this ruling was heard on May 21, 2014, but was ultimately rejected by the Supreme Court of Israel on February 14, 2015.[18]

And corporate interests too, to make it all really fucked up.

>Revelation of Caterpillar surveillance

In 2017, documents emerged that showed Caterpillar had hired private investigators to spy on the family of Rachel Corrie following her killing in early 2003.[126][127]

I feel like, not even the actual fucking nazis would have done something like that because they would've considered it too dishonerable. The Israeli stains on humanity have no shame.

So?

Greta Thunberg - how to milk one viral moment you had as a kid and make a career out of it.