The New Video of Federal Agents Ambushing a Student and Disappearing With Her Should Chill You to Your Core

As an european I've been mentally screaming this over the atlantic for months. GET ORGANIZED NOW! Reach out in your community, protest as much as possible, get armed, learn self defense, stockpile essential goods and most importantly, support each other.

It is possibly all the more reason to keep it up. I don't want to be a target either, but these people need to know when they have entered hostile territory.

Do not take it down! They are acting exactly according to plan and the next step is to have people like you be afraid to openly display your ideals. Taking down that flag would be a win for them.

I understand that it is frightening and the urge to fly under the radar is growing, but now isn't the time to take those flags down. It's the time to fly them high.

Yes. That was literally my point.

There are more than 10 of us.

Maybe but One gun vs. 10 isn't gonna do much. Needs to be combined with community organization. Get to know your neighbors and look out for and protect those likely to be targeted next. Organize your workplace and protect your coworkers from ICE. If you don't speak up there will be no one to speak up for you when it's your turn.

I don't know what they were, but they're not cops like they clearly said they were.

I was taking the piss. It’s nowhere near enough depth or long enough. For example the chapter on de-escalation might not even exist.

I didn't say it was ethical, but yes, they do. The people in this video have clearly not arrested anyone before.

USAmerica cops have formal training?

At least the US looks down on historical McCarthyism. Generally.

In the fifties talking about communism was a big bad thing according to Bill Bryson. People talk like the western world in general, and specifically USAmerica is this moral bastion.

>Chinese people were afraid to discuss certain topics in public, which was not the case in the USA at that time,

Try talking about unionizing at work and see how people react. Americans are terrified of discussing critical issues in places where it matters the most.

Companies having the ability to destroy your life for having the wrong opinion is just as bad as a state doing it.

I lived there 10 years ago and it felt entirely different at the time. Chinese people were afraid to discuss certain topics in public, which was not the case in the USA at that time, but yes, times have changed and it is becoming increasingly similar in the US.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

Americans also love to victim blame. This poor woman was violently abducted by people in masks and the first response of most Americans will be to ask "what did she do to deserve it?"

This. The average American isn't uncomfortable enough to make a stand. They still have food, jobs, housing, schools, transportation. While the average American's needs are met, I doubt much will happen.

"Yeah but it didn't happen to me."...Until it did.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Could Canada PLEASE annex the Pacific Coast states? Most of us didn't vote for this!

We’ve recreate the Stasi in our own image

There is nothing standing in the way of anything else. They can disappear you, your parents, your children, and your friends. They can send you to a work camp in El Salvador and there is nothing anyone can do for you once you are there.

Keep tabs on your loved ones. Have a plan for if the gestapo shows up at your home. If you can leave, it's time to strongly consider it. This is the equivalent to somewhere from 1933 to 1936. Basically no one in the camps from those years survived to VE day.


The only good fascist is a dead one.

He’s standing on the side, awkwardly drinking a bottle of water.

So then military members "swearing an oath to their constitution" are all full of shit as well? Cuz I dont see any upholding that oath.

I mean, imagine if we sided with Castro government back in the 60’s, rubio’s family would have been sent to concentration camps.

his only purpose is to be the backup barking chihuahua , in case vance isnt enough barking.

"Uh yes it's me, the police. Come with us. Whatsamatter, don't you believe in police?!"

Things that someone who isn't the police would also say.

Something like that.

I can't condone burning Teslas, cause that'd be domestic terrorism...

Punch Nazis, burn Teslas?

Indeed.

I'm mocking the signal chat debacle

Setting the constitution on fire

And what the hell does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Sorry to hear that, bud. If it's any consolation, I think the media is making it seem like these sorts of events are more commonplace than they actually are, and the Trump administration is so incompetent that they are actually lagging far behind the Biden administration who set the record for most deportations in a single term.

That being said, it's not the quantity, but the brazen unlawfulness of each and every one of these extrajudicial deportations that is the concerning part. We're still only 2 months into this administration and it feels like a year has passed already with the absolute blitz of unlawful and corrupt conduct coming from the White House.

I'm not ready to give up the fight just yet, but I feel like true civil war is inevitable at this point unless by some miracle there are adults out there with the gumption to take the wheel back from Trump and Musk and start steering the ship in the right direction again while there's still time.

Stay strong and keep your chin up. As long as your are prepared one step ahead of everyone else, you'll likely be okay. Even if that's just making sure you have a bag packed and ready to go at a moment's notice.

they aren't *those* people though.

There have already been articles of Trump voters blindsided that their spouses have been deported acting shocked like his policies wouldn't affect them because they thought their relatives were the "good ones" of *those* people. As if that adminstration isn't just a cudgel they all wanted in the first place...

I don’t know if it’s related to the culture of American exceptionalism

It’s because they don’t know it’s happening. My Fox watching dad or ABC/CNN watching Mom will never see this. Some younger relatives I have will never see this. My prepper aunts/uncles will never see this.

I keep saying this over and over again, but… it’s the algorithm. It’s the information environment.

Starts with green card holders, then it progresses to those who weren't born in the US via denaturalization (as the administration has already started with), and finally it gets to all citizens. The people cheering for this are the ones who don't realize that the leopards will eat their faces sooner or later as well.

I don't know if it's related to the culture of American exceptionalism, that people are so used to the idea that they're special and that they won't be affected, that they never even stop to consider the possibility.

My one viable exit plan went up in smoke today. Then I spent a while crying because I don’t know what to do. I’ve made a list of what to pack if I had to leave at a moment’s notice and I keep searching for other potential avenues out (before it gets extra-crazy), but it is not easy.

I can't believe nothing is coming from the sane half of the country. This will not get any better. So where is the attitude, the boldness, the pride, the ego, the guns, everything that shaped my view of what the US are in the past decades? Where are you?! Writing comments on the internet while people disappear in real life.

I'm going to quote Erich Kästner again:

The events from 1933 to 1945 should have been combated by 1928 at the latest. Later it was too late. We must not wait until the fight for freedom is called treason. We must not wait until the snowball has turned into an avalanche. The rolling snowball must be crushed. No one can stop the avalanche. It only comes to rest when it has buried everything beneath it.

Erich Kästner, 1958

they were doing it his first terms too, in broad daylight.

Okay, please think about what happens next...

Do you want to bring your fists to a gun fight?

Do you think Nazis dont know how to use guns?

Have you ever been in a fight? I havent.

But there is some fantasy that you knock this guy out in one punch, you are surrounded by cheering crowds, they hoist you on their shoulders and take you away to a bar.

In reality, a bunch of other Nazis, with actual weapons, immediately step in and take you and your friends to a black site.

Their safety should not be a given. Make them fucking terrified.

Nazis want to murder people for simply existing. We should always be for punching Nazis

Oh dear, I didn't read them! Little England xenophobia at its finest.

Boy, the comments on that video are a treat

This happened in my country in 2021: https://youtu.be/ZZcoXdZeabA No guns involved, just a load of people prepared to stand around all day blocking the vans.

Get yourselves organised.

>A unified community

That's just it, we've lost all touch on what it means to be a community. Strangers that we happen to be around or live around isn't a community. To have a community, you need to have shared roots and bonds: grew up together, work together, hold festivals together, have shared spaces that you work together to improve, etc.

Her lawyer hasn't talked to her, but we know who to ask. Where would we be if the camera hadn't captured the kidnapping? Missing student?

What in the article makes you think the cameras had any impact on this case? Her lawyer still hadn’t talked to her when this was published. She was still taken with no information given. The cameras only seem to normalize this for some and put fear in others. And way too many are happy with it. But doesn’t seem anyone was able to do shit about it.

This is the new normal, this is now acceptable in every real way. Sure some people are upset, some are worried. But nothing is being done to stop it in any real way. This is America now. The country is a complete dictatorship with no laws for those in power. Seems a lot of people refuse to believe or see that.

I strongly urge you to read more than just the headline. Not just in this circumstance, every circumstance.

Rather do that than get taken away. Atleast if the headline is to be believed. But i guess they just lied in the headline?

Spoken like someone who hasn't dealt with American police.

If you do much as dare to be near an acorn, they will mag dump you.

True https://a.co/d/9RYoaT0

Not to defend it, but it looks like at least two of them have a badge hanging around their neck.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Jan-6-Clearinghouse-FBI-Intelligence-Assessment-White-Supremacist-Infiltration-of-Law-Enforcement-Oct-17-2006-UNREDACTED.pdf

It’s already dirty and now the dog collars are off. Wake up.

Believe as you wish, but if a person works for a boss that they know to be a sex trafficker, doing things sex-trafficking-adjacent, or at least illegal, for him, that's good enough for me to declare that person a sex-trafficking POS.

Also, I don't think for a microsecond that goons given this kind of power and impunity over detainees are going to refrain from sexual assault. We just haven't heard about it yet (this time).

But, well, pick your lane.

I don't believe that if you work for a sex pest that makes you a sex pest. That would mean everyone who's ever worked for Weinstein is a sex pest.

It's the same principle as what you call 9 people at a table with a Nazi. These agents deserve no nuance.

Just because something is new doesn’t mean it’s not real. Culture comes from the top…

Your argument is that because Trump and Musk engage in sex trafficking personally that "federal agents" do more broadly.

Searching online for "federal agent sex trafficking," I see a news article from a few years ago that undercover federal agents purchased sex from a victim during an investigation; that's about all.

I read the comment from !SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social and thought,

"Yeah, I'd believe that the Venn diagram of POS people that get into sex trafficking and POS people that want to be ICE agents has a pretty large overlap."

ICE is a black hole. People go in and disappear, until months later ICE representatives inform the next of kin they died in custody. But I feel like the amount of human rights violations that get reported by ICE pales in comparison to the ones that get swept under the rug. Especially now, with Trump's 2nd coming. It could be *bad*, like the eurocentric world hasn't seen in a long time.

I guess my hat is tinfoil colored.

I have my tinfoil hat at my side and I'm eager to put it on, just give me the conspiracy theory and I'll bite.

Well, President Musk has been accused of helping Epstein's trafficking, we know for sure that his Oval Office puppet was involved.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/hundreds-of-immigrants-have-reported-sexual-abuse-at-ice-facilities-most-cases-arent-investigated

You're not wearing the right color hat to understand (tinfoil)

Can you give me more information about federal agents doing sex trafficking?

Assuming they're federal agents, then yes.

If unmarked, unidentified people start grabbing at random students, you have the responsibility to intervene. Police must wear clothing that identifies them, show a badge, or be accompanied by uniformed officers..... Otherwise, just shouting I'm the police isn't good enough for me.

Given the reports coming out of the detention camps: yes.

Either Oakland has changed wildly in a very short time or you have no idea what you're talking about.

Attempted and successful presidential assassinations have also historically precipitated the strengthening of gun laws.

Historically speaking, the only way gun restrictions get passed in the US is due to skin color...

There really is a strong argument for minorities to carry.

Worst case scenario you just end up with stricter gun laws.

I kinda doubt there's many people carrying guns in Oakland California or LA....

Exactly, if I’m getting approached and they aren’t identifying themselves…. Guns are coming out. Fuck that game

Description of ICE training and practices, including:

What this means is that ICE cannot enter a home without a judicial warrant (a warrant signed by a judge) or voluntary permission (consent) from an authorized adult. They almost never have a judicial warrant and therefore need consent to legally enter your home. ICE agents uses ruses as a way to get inside homes without identifying that they are ICE.

It's not clear to me if "resisting arrest" is a thing with ICE.

Europe has changed its attitude as of late. As well as Canada and Australia. But we'll see what happens when US invades Greenland.

Weird how quickly you respond when adding nothing of value and treating others poorly, but when asked questions about the specifics of what you prefer to what you're shouting down, you sure take your time.

Edited to add link for accessibility: https://lemmy.world/comment/16068181

Okay? I stand by my saying you're wrong.

Still waiting on the response to the other one btw

Lol what? No. You are either deeply misunderstanding what I'm saying or trolling.

What? Why do you think that observing that no one is coming to save us = not caring about the outcome or not doing anything to affect it? Btw, since you're so against apathy I'm pretty curious 1. What steps you're taking to prevent the spread of fascist policy and ideology and 2. What do you recommend to the average US citizen who feels overwhelmed and helpless to stop the hostile takeover to both make change and feel empowered?

Is this a joke? Where is the precedent for interceding in fascist regimes simply to stop fascism? If anyone from the outside steps in in any way it's not going to be to save us, and it's more likely IMO to be from someone with interests in acquiring US holdings, I.e. not because of the spread of fascism. I would be very surprised if I was wrong about this.

You think the US is the only autocratic place on Earth? The remainder of the Democratic West isn't going to start policing every regressive regime on the planet, starting with the biggest military on the planet.

Given the world's track record with the 2nd and 3rd greatest world powers, I imagine the same if not tamer with the 1st greatest world power. Heavy sanctions only when they actually invade a "western" country.

Nobody is doing anything about all the others, and I doubt anyone would like to start against the biggest military force ever

Seem like modern day SA

Canary Mission is run by Jonathan Bash who also runs an Israeli nonprofit.

https://www.influencewatch.org/organization/canary-mission/

They have ICE’s ear because a board member of that nonprofit considers Stephen Miller a close friend.

https://forward.com/news/411881/documents-reveal-men-behind-megamot-shalom-mysterious-charity-tied-to/

From that link:

One of the board members, an American-born Jerusalem resident named Rabbi Ben Packer, operates an ideological hostel in Jerusalem’s Old City that sends its lodgers to volunteer at illegal West Bank settlements. According to a Haaretz report, Packer distributes the literature of Rabbi Meir Kahane, the Israeli politician whose party was outlawed for racism in 1988. Packer says he is a friend of Stephen Miller, the Trump administration official who pushed to have families separated at the U.S. border.

“Stephen Miller is not just my friend, he’s not just our friend, HE IS US!” Packer wrotein a 2016 column. “He is part of that new proud generation, no longer relegated to the fringe. His appointment is spectacular news for the Jewish People and he should be blessed with everything to do great things!”

I don't know if this is everywhere but here in Egypt this website just gives you a

"You are not allowed to access this website"

Which sounds _slightly_ ominous

I feel like I'd rather take them shooting me at that point, especially if I can get at least one of them to choke on blood right alongside me.

I can very easily buy a fake badge, flash it at you, and say I'm police.

This is why uniforms and agency-labeled vehicles (with id numbers!) exist. The fact that we still do not know the names of these officers should be enough evidence to prove that these could've not been officers at all.

Legal defense doesn't matter for you when you're shot or choked dead by "police" because you defended yourself against an unknown assailant.

Is that an official legal stance? I love it, but I've also seen undercover cops do the same stuff on the internet and with laws like Qualified Immunity I reckon that there are already laws in place to support these "just" actions

They said they are police and took out badges.

Well, the police have qualified immunity and the president is immune to all law suits according to SCOTUS.

I'd say that the social contract has already been broken. Not to mention the blatant unequal application of the law according to your wealth.

When they no longer have to follow the rules, the rules no longer matter. Violation of the social contract to that degree renders it null and void.

There is no legally protecting yourself from the prerogative state, i.e. whatever the dictator wants. We have to follow rules. They don't.

I definitely agree, just bringing this up as a point since it would be encouraging to know you can legally protect yourself

A legal defense can easily be mounted. If they did not identify themselves as police officers, or had any proof of being police, you are clear to use lethal force. The victim had all right to believe that they are a victim of first degree kidnapping, a crime with a punishment that is 2nd only to 1st degree murder in US law.

Their conduct is not one you would expect of law enforcement. So I will say it. Shoot. Shoot to kill.

how about who cares? we have to take a stand for humanity at some point, the law be damned

I mean at a certain point legality doesn't matter if they black bag you and deport you before you can even have a trial. Which clearly seems to be their goal by the fact that they move the detainees away from where they apprehend them to avoid the court there being able to have jurisdiction. As well as with the large numbers of people who were put on planes without any kind of trial or process where they can prove they're there legally. With this becoming the norm at a certain point your only option really is to fight back and resist arrest or be deported without due process.

De-arrests are a thing, they do and have worked against ICE kidnap attempts. But you need a critical mass of people to do it, if you go alone they'll just arrest you too or worse, shoot you.

If they're cops you'll most likely get shot yourself doing that. Which may be a better outcome than getting thrown in one of these black sites. We don't have a really good idea of what happens in them.

>Legally speaking if some one interfered or resisted wouldn’t they be justified?

Depends, some states protect interfering and resisting to a reasonable degree others don't. Got to check state laws to be on the safe side.

Not a lawyer, btw.

Not a law expert, the article says

To be perfectly clear, Ozturk is not accused of breaking the law. The Department of Homeland Security hasn’t bothered to explain its reasoning

So maybe is still the patriot act effect?

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/stopped-by-police#ive-been-stopped-by-the-police-in-public

>There are already a lot of reports.

This post is *one* report.

The claim is that there are lots of reports of this happening.

I know about the 2020 plainclothes, masked, secret police kidnappings, and I know of this one. Are there others, or was the "lots of reports" just made up?

Edit: grammar. removed a (hopefully) unnecessary comma

Lol I tried all I got was how to report missing people to the FBI, lists of missing people unrelated to the gestapo, and articles about ice raids where the cops were in uniform.

fucking goof, just look it up

So, no?

If you make a claim, the burden of proof lies on you, not the other person to internet search for a mystery article.

Are you referring to the BLM protest arrests in 2020 or is there something current happening beyond this one instance?

I'm not saying this isn't bad, nor that it won't get worse, but if it's already worse, and you're making the claim that it is, I'd like to see some evidence of that.

Just Type it into your favourite search engine.

This fucking post

source for these reports?

Yep. People just disappearing. There are already a lot of reports. Its straight up facism at work. Thats terrifying.

Beside the fact, that the SA never worn face masks. You still have time to fight against this, the moment these people will not wear any masks anymore, you'll live in a fully fascist country.

And chicago, for years now

Nothing happened on that particular day. Nope. nothing *whistles while Winnie the Pooh gets his knickers in a knot*

Sure, recognizing the light when it's eclipsed by plenty of shadow can seem cartoonish. We can decide to close our eyes and be left in the darkness. We can decide not to pay attention or learn from something we deem unacceptable.

Is there absolutely nothing that China is doing that the rest of the world could learn from? Do you know how much China is investing in green energy in relation to the west? Do you think I am unable to recognize problems in China while at the same time recognizing that it is the single largest investor in green energy on Earth today? Do you think I'm unable to recognize that the United States has a great elite educational system? Or that I'm unable to recognize that the USA has amazing elite research facilities? Or that during the twentieth century it was a world leader in terms of State investments in strategic technologies?

Yeah, what about all the good the ~~US~~ China (of course I meant China!) does, that should make up for their war crimes and crimes against humanity against their own citizens.

June 4th 1989

It sounds as if you're frustrated at her for not recognizing that people disappear in China, sometimes people like critics of the government. Do you think there's absolutely nothing good that China does?

It's the kind of thing that happened in Nazi Germany.

hey kind of a random question but there is a tankie on my groupchat that i want to send proof of china disappearing people can you show me something i can send her to shut her up about how good china is?

Well yeah, and a legal defense fund.

So somewhere in there I lost what you are suggesting would increase the likelihood of multiple people attempting to peacefully intervene to stop these abductions.

Also, I find physchology writing to be hard to read. Not sure what they need to do to make these things more readable though. But even though the topic interests me, I just can't seem to read a book on the subject.

You have a good point! It does sound like my suggestions only help for repeated behaviors. For example, Tiny Habits seems to indicate that it'll work for habits but not for novel situations.

You explicitly mention that it's unlikely that research covers situations that are entirely novel and rare. Do you know about schema theory or relational frame theory? I ask because both of those theories explicitly deal with how entirely new information (such as entirely new situations) is processed in the human brain and how, depending on the schemas or relational frames that a person already had, the person will react in different ways.

But we don't have to go into the theoretical weeds. The popular books that I mentioned earlier deal with novelty. For example, Lakoff shows how, inside the head of any person, a small set of beliefs can end up guiding most of the person's moral thinking and therefore their choices. Not only that, but even the book titled Tiny Habits has sections dedicated to one-off behaviors. Heck, the book Drive deals with teams that are at the bleeding edge of knowledge and techniques, technologies and workflows that no human has ever dealt with before, and yet the book is able to show how there is a set of evidence-based principles that consistently motivate (or not) those very teams.

The fundamental issue is whether humans are able to recognize a situation and know what to do about it. Our brains have been endowed with the capacity to derive thoughts, to think up entirely new situations, to imagine scenarios. We can use that to increase the odds of responding effectively to situations we have never been in before.

While all that maybe true in the case of an activity that happens over and over... the odds that any one person is close enough to one of these events more than once is extremely small. I doubt any of that research covers this kind of situation.

I remember a story at the beginning of the Arab Spring. A student journalist tweeted, "Arrested" to his few followers and it went viral.

https://mashable.com/archive/twitter-get-out-of-jail

Well, you don't want it to be from a company. You want it to be opensource and decentralized so the government can't shut it down.

In a platform full of coders... Surely one of you will build this app, yeah?

>Maybe we need a app that will notify people that something is happening so they can flood the area even more with people who will stand in front of the vehicle.

That used to be Twitter if you knew the pages to follow. It was effective for calling for action at specific places/times during protests, it was no surprise Musk bought it and ruined it. With all major tech companies aligned with fascism it would be tough for a new app like this to become popular.

I understand you're trying to increase the odds that people will intervene and that this horrible kidnapping would not be successful.

However, the fund for rewards is not the way to go.

Psychological research about human motivation shows that expecting external rewards reduces personal motivation (or, as psychologists would say it, extrinsic motivation can hinder intrinsic motivation). When humans do things because they expect external rewards, they stop doing it for the sake of it and expect higher and higher rewards over time.

Pay children to draw and they lose their interest in doodling or drawing for fun. Pay your team members for being kind and they will be less kind overall.

So what can we do? You talk to people. You understand their concerns and wishes, and you have them understand your concerns and wishes. You use frames that they already have in their head so that they can see your point of view. You set implementation intentions.

It's a matter of values and the capacity to do the behavior.

Of course, if you're in a dictatorial regime, stopping a state-approved kidnapping will be illegal and get you in lots of trouble. That's why activism also seeks to change root causes. What kinds of root causes? That will depend on who you are. Some people blame the electoral system in the USA, so maybe changing that could help. Other people will blame other causes and therefore will suggest other changes.

This may be abstract, and I wish I had the time to make it less so. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now, but you can check out sources that talk about this. Check out Drive by Pink to learn about motivation. Check out Don't think of an Elephant by George Lakoff to learn about moral reframing. Check out Rethinking Positive Thinking by Gabriele Oettingen or Tiny Habits to learn about implementation intentions.

More like a bail fund

I guess you're so far down the 1933 way that you'll hear a lot of people say "we had no idea a. what was going on / b. things were so bad" in a couple of years...

Supporting the end of genocide?? She is a terrorist by the looks of it

More people voted for someone besides Trump. If no one was an option, they would have won in a landslide. Where is the proof she is a terrorist? What if the next president labels maga hats terrorists? You're deported and no one will ever know.

Smoresrock is a Russian Bot

Except that's not what's going on here.

Radical Islam groups are designated terrorists. It just so happens that this administration is buckling down and following through with their word on revoking visas to those who support such groups. This is what America wants; the numbers don't lie. You guys are just not used to the follow through.

We have a system of checks and balances. We have something called the judicial branch that determines the law. Not the president. The fact you're ok with trump defying the constitution in this manner further proves this is fascism not nationalism. You don't love our country, you just hate groups that are different. Citizenship can be revoked with probable cause now. All it takes is an ICE agent to show up and detain you. You think it won't happen to you but once you start disagreeing you're gone

So writing an opinion article that her university shouldn't be funding Israel because she disagrees with how Israel is handling the conflict makes her a terrorist supporter? No evidence of ties to Hamas or supporting Hamas. Tell me how she supported terrorists and this isn't just an infringement on free speech.

100 % of Russian Bots agree with smoresrock

Rapid fire over here. Okay, here goes:

• For being a Hamas supporter.

• By no judge. Due process is not mandatory in this case.

• She was detained because she's a Hamas supporter.

• By The standard designated to terrorist supporters.

• Yes, Trump. He is our president after all. Commander in Chief and head of the executive branch

• The policies put in place against terrorists and supporters thereof is the "ultimate deciding force."

• What happens if I'm wrong about what?

• How are citizenships revoked? If there's a way, and I meet those conditions, then yes.

We're past elbows up, we're currently transitioning to Gloves Off.

I usually do not get rage-baited, but something about this response clicked something it my soul.

I am not a lefty. I will resort to much worse than insults if ever got my hands on you (or anyone like you).

I hate to co-opt the Canadians but. Elbows up.

Classic lefty reaction. Just shut down and resort to insults. Cool 😎

Her visa was revoked for what? By what judge? Why was she detained? You claim she's "wrong". By whose standard? Trump? He's the ultimate deciding force? What happens when you're wrong? Can we revoke your citizenship?

her visa was revoked.

Without due process.

Fuck off, Nazi cunt. Blocked.

Lmao. Couple things: 1) relax, and 2) she wasn't incarcerated; her visa was revoked. That doesn't require due process, since they're discretionary.

Take it easy, man.

You don't have to be Muslim to be anti Israel.

Yikes, the hasbara is really moldy these days, that doesn't even make sense.

Well, you did out yourself.

We got a Nazi here.

>What part of that aren’t you following?

The part where she isn't a hamas supporter, and was abducted by the secret police for writing an op-ed on how Tufts should divest money from Israel.

We have due process in this country. If you don't like that, then fuck off.

Nazism isn't nationalism. Loving your country doesn't mean you silence those that disagree with you and "detain" anyone that doesn't look like you.

That's just it. Police beat and harass people and the public barely takes note. So fighting back and getting beaten isn't really going to move the needle here in terms of public support. Those that would be outraged by someone getting disappeared in broad daylight by thugs in all black with masks on, that are claiming to be law enforcement, will also be outraged by anything more significant. From a public support standpoint, you don't gain a lot of attention by fighting back and getting beaten.

Honestly, someone should go to the local PD and report that person as missing/abducted.

To be clear: anyone with the skillset, knowledge and experience to effectively stand their ground against these kinds of people, absolutely should.

Unless they clearly identify themselves and show proof (badges and documents) that prove their claims of being law enforcement, you should 100% fight back against being kidnapped by these thugs. They are little more than a gang with government funding if they're not doing things "by the book" so to speak.

As far as I can see, most of this kind of thing that's been happening lately is more based on feelings and assumptions by a small group who is going around mostly unchecked, doing a lot of damage. If the police/LEO crowd had a PR problem with BLM (and all related incidents including protests) then this is going to be a complete shit storm when it finally hits the fan, which might be four years from now....

On an individual level, I completely understand why someone untrained and unprepared would want to avoid any harm coming to them by complying, regardless of who the perpetrator is. Whether police, FBI, homeland security, secret service or some other form of LEO, or simply an organized gang of thugs.... Self preservation is going to be the main goal. Far be it for me to fault someone for doing what they feel is going to give them the best outcome in that scenario.

Escalation is the point. People weren't upset when police beat and harassed people.

Not just just. The only good ending to that story.

The killing starts when they become more confident that there won't be any consequences for their actions.

I want to respond with something. But everything I write is so fucking dark and violent. Here goes, I'll try again:

If I were in Nazi Germany, and I saw this go down- a Jew or disabled or protester getting disappeared- and these Nazi brown shirts were shot and killed, or beaten to a pulp with metal bars, fucking stomped to death, I think it would be just.

As much as I agree, resisting is likely going to escalate the situation beyond what most people are willing to deal with.

Face it, very few people have the knowledge and skill required to even put up a fight against anyone that is prepared for that encounter.

I get why the victim here didn't really fight back. I get why she let them take her away. I understand the fear she was probably feeling in that moment, and it can be paralysing for someone who isn't prepared to fight for their life and doesn't have the knowledge, skill, or experience required to handle the situation.

To be clear: I'm not saying this victim is dumb, inexperienced, or lacks general life experience, I would argue quite the opposite, in fact. The problem is that they don't have the knowledge, skill, and experience with confrontations. I'm certain, beyond any doubt, that this person was very intelligent, skilled and experienced; just not with physical confrontation.

This is shameful behavior. Why did they feel the need to ambush a bookworm? Not to insult them so all but they are clearly more of an intellectual person than a combative person.

Disclaimer: I'm not American, I'm just empathetic to those that get disappeared in the middle of the day by people wearing all black without so much as a badge being flashed.

It's a tough call honestly. So far it doesn't seem like they are killing the people they take. If the person was armed, and tries to use it to defend themselves, they very likely will get killed. As other have commented, these appear to be basically thugs. Likely with less training then police officers, and certainly with less oversight. So people need to choose what they want to avoid most. Death, or incarceration with a chance of getting out. I would hate to have to make that choice myself.

Nazi? You, sir, are ridiculous and have no sense of nationalism. Hamas, who would not have your back or mine, is quite obviously the problem in Palestine, and this PhD student (as if that makes a difference) is supporting the wrong side. The US is revoking visas of Hamas supporters. Hence, she's being detained to ultimately have her visa revoked. What part of that aren't you following?

The more people show up at protests, the better. https://indivisible.org/ has local groups and lists of protests.

Orgs like ACLU are fighting legal battles, which cost money. If you can, donate.

https://www.seeyouinthestreets.com/

April 5th, the Washington Monument @ 12pm. There is also probably a protest at your state capitol on the same day, at the same time.

Looking for an answer to this as well [...] but if it has a chance of making a difference. Just not sure what to do.

I think there is many, many people thinking the same thing. People not afraid to act, but uncertain as to it's efficacy. I'd love to hear from anybody who has something to say.

Thank you advancedpotionmaking and oktux for your responses (is there a proper way to reference users?).

Looking for an answer to this as well. I’m non violent 100% - but open to civil disobedience. If bad people are putting good people in jail I’m ok going to jail. Not to be a martyr, but if it has a chance of making a difference. Just not sure what to do.

Do you think cops aren’t strangling minorities to death after Covid?

How many times have you seen a cop strangle someone to death for 9 minutes since Covid 19?

Sure chief, how many nation wide riots have happened since Covid 19?

One of those things where dude is saying the driver died due to a crack in the road, but the car was doing 100 over the limit.

Sure, maybe the protests/riots would've been smaller without Covid, but...

I guess MAGAs are on Lemmy too.

Police abuse and murder of minorities happens all the time in America and no one riots or even bats an eye.

People were bored from sitting around during Covid and the massive heat wave that summer didn’t help.

How many nation wide riots have happened since Covid 19?

Right. That whole cop kneeling on a person's neck until they died had nothing to do with it.

BLM happened because people were bored from the Covid 19 lock downs and hot because of the heat waves that summer.

Otherwise it would have fizzled out after a few weeks.

Covid 19? Odd way to write BLM.

Unfortunately most people are not going to put their life on the line for you. For reference the advice to women being violently raped is to remain quiet and pee on their attacker or yell *fire*. Because people do not respond to the words *help* or *rape*.

So we start a movement by asking people to do something less, be a witness. Don't let them just disappear people.

that's easy to say bystanders shouldn't stand idle, but the problem is that can escalate very quickly, you don't know what these people are packing and sometimes the police don't even interfere when they should (look at that incident on a NYC subway where some bystander stepped in to stop a mass stabbing, the police in the next cart over watching this unfold, did nothing until the perp was incapacitated, meanwhile the bystander was in ER, and looking at a bill only possibly paid off through GoFundMe donations).

I think recording anything is probably the best course of action like you said.

What is the phrase... "death is so final".

It's about odds and comfort with risk. The odds of dieing are many fold higher if you pull a gun. If you are say a mom of 5 kids... getting taken and deported, but alive and free is woth a lot more than it is for a 20 something with no family.

Sadly, when it comes to thugs, there is no shortage.

And they need to escape unscathed every time. We just need to ensure that our ratio is 2:1 or greater. There are more of everyone else than there are of them.

There's no guarantee it's even the police. Could be sex traffickers for all you know.

I'm saying a chance at life is better than none. If everyone gets proper gun training, it would increase odds.

When I say "do you think they're doing catch and release", I mean to say they are putting these people in literal concentration camps. Not just deporting them.

Lawyers and non-profits will not be able to do anything to help.

When they came for the jews, people saying things like that is part of why so many were taken. You need to fight. Not sit idle and hope the lawyers work. It acts as a strong deterrent for the coward fucks if they learn they can find out when they do kidnappings

In the 1930s and 1940s, the previous followers of this blighted ideology made 5 million+ people die in horrifying ways. I'm not keen on finding out how many this current batch of assholes is willing to kill. You try to abduct me or someone I care about, you get a face full of pepper spray, at a minimum. And I'm sure not going to look down on an immigrant or minority shooting down a masked secret police officer or 5. Maybe if they have to put their bodies on the line, the assholes will be less keen on trying to abduct people.

You are assuming those are actually police officers.

So, you're saying that "suicide by cop" is the better alternative to *having hope that lawyers and non-profit orgs help you*? Or, I don't know, you get deported but LIVE and manage to get to a civilised country?

They said black refugees were eating people's pets, when their lies were exposed they said they are allowed to lie to foment racist calls to action.

Do you honestly think they're just going to do catch and release?

The psycho right spins everything either way. It doesn't make a difference, and we shouldn't cater to their "news"

Tell me, how do you imagine a PhD student getting in a firefight with five people and not ending up dead?

Also tell me: do you honestly believe that if such thing happened, the psycho-right wouldn't spin this as "violent Brown attacks police who bravely take her down"?

If you fail to resist a fascist police state you're already dead.

Letting it happen is a sure way to end up in fascism. It's kosher legally to defend someone in immediate physical danger.

you could be dead either way. why not take some with you?

Americans need to understand that during a resistance there will be casualties.

I'm not so sure the alternative of being disappeared into an El Salvedor prison is much better. Besides, it's time for the Fascists to feel the pain. I'm not a firearm carrying sort myself but I do carry a can of pepper gel with me. A gift for anyone who is trying to molest me.

That is a sure way to end up dead.

There are also other ways you can resist a Fascist. I have a can of pepper gel I keep on me at all times. Anyone who tries to abduct me and put me in the back of a van, secret police or just random crook, is getting that sprayed in their eyes and mouth. Apply liberally to the face of the leopard trying to eat your face then run.

I advise everyone who is here on a Student Visa or similar circumstance to start carrying, whether it be mace or a firearm. But keep in mind the firearm salesman notes above. They are good ones.

Former fireman salesman here:

Don't just go buy a gun on a whim. Gun ownership is a responsibility with potentially deadly consequences if not taken seriously, and there are moral, legal, ethical, and practical considerations involved.

If anyone has questions about firearms, firearm safety, etc, feel free to reach out. I don't support violent demonstrations or lawlessness, but anyone wanting to know about the tools for legal self-defense, hunting, and shooting sports is welcome to ask me questions.

Yup.

If plain-clothed thugs try to push me into an unmarked van I have to assume I need to start fighting for my life. I don't give a fuck who they say they are. If you are who you are, wear a uniform, act professional, and show me identification.

Everyone needs to purchase a firearm and start training.

If you see this, pull a fuckin gun on the kidnappers.

There is no guarantee this is an arrest.

These people are not showing that they are law enforcement. For all we know we just watched someone get kidnapped by sex traffickers.

Bystanders shouldn't stand by idle, if someone is getting kidnapped right in front of you, and you're able bodied, you should do something about it, violently. Even if it means grabbing the closest heavy thing and throwing it at them. Yell, make a scene, yell out "kidnappers help me!" ....etc

NEVER LET YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ELSE BE TAKEN TO A SECONDARY LOCATION. EVER.

Anything your captors are willing to do in public is only a fraction of what they would be willing to do in private.

You don't necessarily have to put yourself in harms way, but you can still show some level of resistance to kidnappers, rapists, and the rest. No one should just let those things happen in front of them, and simply pull their phone out to film.

That's some psycho pass level shit.

Tell me one single thing democrats have done to slow down the current administration. Biden even opened up new immigration camps as he was leaving office, they had all but rolled out the red carpet for Trump.

Give me a break. There is no world where a democratic government should be equated to the fascist shit show that's on display for the entire world.

The voters deserve the government they choose. This includes those who abdicated their responsibility by not voting.

Democrats have enabled this, did you not see the crackdowns and illegal abductions at universities before Trump was elected? These parties are two sides of the same pro-capital fascist coin. MAGA republicans are more openly fascist, but do you see any serious resistance from elected Democrats?

>Well, it does look like he shows her his badge as he’s walking up to her.

…not at all…? He has his hands in his pockets until he stops walking in front of her, then he takes out his open hand to tell her to stop, then he takes out the other to stop her from walking away. When do you think he showed her a badge?

I get that, but it's like you are commenting on how a rapist was not efficient in his raping... not sure there is any value in "how" something that should not have taken place, actually took place

I agree, it doesn’t seem to have been done the way it should have been.

It shouldn't have been done, period

That's kind of a hollywood thing. It can certainly happen but an unsecured person in a van is a nightmare to deal with.

People who are arrested are either charged with a crime or are presenting an immediate and reasonable threat. None of these are the case here. This was absolutely a violation of her due process. Thats without even getting to the issue of her visa revocation.

Cops in most of those situations have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. Not so here.

They didn't have badges out at first and they didn't show any ID. This is absolutely a situation you could legally draw a gun and start shooting at people. Police should be in uniform and showing ID. This is how militias in "bad" countries abduct and kill people. There's no way to tell them from the police. This is not normal in a western democracy.

Kidnapping comes with the threat of violence if you resist. She committed no crime so this is kidnapping.

"Get in the van, there's candy" is also an explanation. But you probably shouldn't believe it when a masked individual is saying it and the van is unmarked.

The vast majority of 2A enthusiasts were never brave or intelligent enough to use it the way it was always intended. As is now evident.

You dropped this: /s

You consider this to be a legal arrest?

They were organized from the actual german police like the Schutzpolizei and the Politische Polizei, I meant that when they were reorganized they become pretty singularly focused.

I know this not the place or time to be a wiseguy BUT the "Geheime Staatspolizei" was founded in 1933 and they were the rabbid dogs of the NSDAP from the beginning. They didnt need to become about jews all the time they were designed as that.

Like when the Staatspolizei suddenly became all about jews all the time.

they're likely federal agents that are used to working behind desks

according to reuters 80% of ATF agents for example have been assigned immigration work

25% of DEA workload has been transferred to immigration

some portion of IRS agents as well are doing immigration

and then even some federal agencies people have never heard of that handles stuff like document fraud (visas, passports) are now participating in manhunts for illegals

it's essentially all hands on deck

Ehhh, its been pretty pitiful from what I have seen. Certainly there are some exceptional usamericans who are out in the streets protesting, but on the average, the country is irredeemable. Fuck those people forever.

Then maybe consider that, like you, some Americans are trying to resist in ways other than direct, deadly confrontation.

i wouldn't fight for the US either

but I'll bet you won't find a federally elected politician that says something this blatantly nazi

Apart from the question of purity, we must also pay attention to the full value of a Race. Ukrainians are a part (and, at that, one of the largest and most qualitative) of the European White Race. the Race-Creator of a great civilization the highest human achievements. The historic mission of our Nation in this crucial century is to lead the White Peoples of the world in the last crusade for their existence. A crusade against the sub-humanity led by the Semites

here in the US you have to use dog whistles

not sure if sarcastic 🤔

The country you talk about, I'm guessing its USA ? Because as an outsider, It looks worse on almost everything right now compared to Ukraine.

Anyone who's vaguely anti russian is construed as being a bedfellow of banderite. Friend of fascists or just a straight up nazi.

Nice recovery!

i'm sorry but a country that elects a neo-nazi into parliament or idolizes nazi-collaborators is not one that i would consider fighting for if i'm anti fascist.

russia isn't any better. but the ukraine v russia war is an independence war where one set of oligarchs wanted to break free from the subjugation from another set of oligarchs.

i won't edit anything i'll stand behind what i say

Mask off moment. Stop being so obvious or putin will send you to the front lines.

Copying for when you edit

>yeah fight fascism by joining the Azov Battalion founded by the famous anti-fascist Andriy Biletsky

piss off putin minion

We are protesting here in US everyday to fight facism. Why should I fight for Ukraine again? We supported weapon delivery to ukraine. I have to take care of my country before I do to others. Need to put US in stable place else we all lose.

Just carrying gun and shooting around is not the definition of fighting unless that is all your learned in school. There are other ways to fight.

I might be arm chair warrior, may be I work in cyber security? May be I create drones? What do u know about me? Nothing.

They would have been in Ukraine years ago. The time for that has come and gone. Ukraine is now one of many theatres of the fascist campaign now.

I am willing to die to fight magats, absolutely. I was considering joining the ildu, I decided to applied to caf instead because they have plenty of noob volunteers already, they need weapons more then me right now.

yeah fight fascism by joining the Azov Battalion founded by the famous anti-fascist Andriy Biletsky

If you were willing to die to fight fascism, you'd be in Ukraine right now. Fuck off with your armchair warrior bullshit.

Edit: woo I pissed off the tankies with this one

No they won't. They are all talk and no show. Wimpiest of all.

As evidenced by three people walking or jogging past and literally not doing anything. The dog walker paused for a bit but then continued. I guess it's the fear of _them_ disappearing too that prevents them from doing anything.

Cascadia when?

Organize armed protests. Connect in your neighborhood, so if this shit goes down, and it will start going down in your neighborhood soon enough, people can show up, free the victim and bog down the attackers.

Time for Canada to annex Pacific Coast states(at least) then we can live in a functioning democracy again.

That's true actually - they are escalating pretty hard already.

As a long-term peacenik though, I hate the thought of gun battles on the streets. I wish you all the very best. I first visited the US in 1976 and have toured around a lot since then. My one single bad experience was Homeland Security when transiting through LAX. We're tourists not terrorists, jeez cool your jets! I can't imagine how bad ICE is.

They will do this either way.

There is no bargaining with these people. They will not not escalate from their side. By not escalating from your side you only encourage their escalation as they face no repercussions.

Where do you expect the resistance leaders to come from?

From the state resistance leadership school, with the public resistance leadership grant? If you dont form a resistance you cannot create resistance leaders

The Vietnamese had some of the greatest strategic minds in their history leading the fight against the Americans.

So far, it doesn't seem like there's a single leader for a resistance in the U.S., and certainly none as skilled in tactics.

The Afghans and Vietnamese had nothing to lose. Americans, no matter how much they complain online, have everything to lose.

But how many people are willing to risk their life without immediate danger to themselves (yet)?

Yeah well, ask the Afghans or Vietnamese. Turns out you don't need to have the same fire power to drag your opponent through the mud.

What do you mean about numbers? The state and it's guards are always massively outnumbered by the people, it's just a question of organization.

and if we had a time machine we could fix all this. STFU. GUNS.

I suspect your government would love it if you started shooting. They'd declare martial law. Goodbye elections, hello police state.

Your guns don't compare to the guns the government use. Nor do you have the numbers to resist even if equally armed. If the 1/3 of voters that didn't vote, actually voted for for Harris, you wouldn't be in this mess but there you are.

I had a decent amount I got back from taxes that I intentionally spent. I'm mentally ill. I'm off my meds because I cant risk withdrawl from going back on them only to have RFK take them away again. I'll lose my job. It doesnt pay enough for me to get by anyway. If I kept that money, I know I would have bought that gun. And I would have used it on myself.

I'm still not sure I did the right thing spending myself into this hole to keep a gun away. I know using it on my oppressors wouldnt likely succeed. I'm more likely to use it on myself.

I still dont know if it was the right thing to do to not buy the gun.

She expressed anti-Palestinian genocide sentiments.

In New America that gets you disappeared by masked thugs.

A couple of op-eds for a Student newspaper criticizing Israel? I thought I saw the pieces linked earlier but I don't see them now. The article linked on this post says it supported a student divestment program and referenced the International Criminal Court calling attacks on Gaza a genocide.

Hardly spicy compared to your average social media post.

https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2024/03/4ftk27sm6jkj

Black Panthers open carried.

They won a (ok a bit more) battle, not the war! Move your ass, rebuild your democracy and add safeguards so you never let such hateful, *removed* people in this position again.

They **already** won, are you from another species? Are you watching this?

full terrorist mode

You mean... like these fuckers?

Just start by protesting, protecting, and block them from doing this shit when possible.

If you go directly full terrorist mode, it means they won...

For peaceful protests to succeed they must attract more people to the cause and gather momentum. Protests now would be useful for bringing people together and emboldening people to resist what's going on. They are a step in building a movement. To say "protests alone don't change things" misses this point.

Exactly, you need armed protest.

I agree. We had over 20% far right votes here in Germany recently. Russian propaganda is going strong, too. Somehow I hope that watching the rapid disassembly of the US under Trump should open the eyes of some of them, but I am grasping at straws here.

Humans are the same everywhere. Political structures and cultures are not, but humans have evolved for much longer.

Which is why when you (if you do) think about the EU being some land of honey, it would be wise to also think "what am I missing if I don't see similar problems there".

After all that trashing of Russians and why they do not fight against their government, the world gets to see that Americans are basically the same: so many fall for the dumbest possible propaganda and the rest is either afraid or apathetic.

Americans see protest as pointless right now.

Americans have seen a generation of peaceful protests that were crushed and villified. Anti-WTO, Anti-Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street, George Floyd, etc; all failed to achieve any of their stated goals.

And now that the fascists have taken control, peaceful protest is even less effective. For peaceful protest to succeed your opponent must have empathy, and fascists have none.

The last protest movement that accomplished something substantial was the civil rights movement. It was not peaceful, it was militant. I think we need a modern Black Panther Party.

It doesn’t help that a large amount of Americans see protest as pointless right now.

It's the wheel of life:

0) Protests help something, but they are hard, violent, inconvenient, people die, money is lost, but they achieve goals and generally people know that protests and breaking everything around is necessary. Cutting infrastructure, beating officials (including police) to pulp, closing roads. Stopping factories (ok, that's not a problem in the first world), stopping trucks and trains, stopping mail. Causing blackouts.

1) To avoid that, people talk. They form mechanisms to avoid real protests, but these mechanisms are dependent on real protests. Like gold standard - it's supported by circulation, so if you can't fall back to gold, you can't really call it gold standard. It's the same with protests. Real democracy is dependent on falling back to protests and just killing a few of the government jerks who think they are some kind of thief aristocracy.

2) People have long, really long period of questions being resolved by talking. And if it comes to protests, these are soft protests and they - mistake - become too subject for discussion, like let's not go to those streets, let's not hurt businesses, let's follow these rules and obey police.

3) People get used to that.

4) The protest gold standard is in fact abolished, you've been softly and slowly made a serf, congratulations.

5) Try protesting now, you'll get absolutely abused for doing pretty normal things.

OK, I'm from Russia, here people looked at tanks on the streets of Moscow in a few crises and decided they are smart and wise to follow rules made by thieves and murderers.

There have been weekly protests of this shit across the country since the asshole was elected. It’s not helping. And even the “opposition party” is capitulating to the bullshit. What else are we supposed to do?

Defenseless is a good word, it seems like we're all just waiting for a savior to show up and rescue us. It doesn't help that a large amount of Americans see protest as pointless right now. What it feels like is the bystander effect on a national level.

The worst part is how many people either support or just brush it off.

She also had her visa revoked so can no longer legally stay in the USA to complete her studies, or enter again. This was because she wrote an op-ed disapproving of Israel's genocide.

Remember "Better be Russian than a democrat" guys? Well, now they're Russian!

We .need to arm ourselves and shoot fuckers like this. If you see fuckets like this trying to take someone intervene and shoot to kill. We need rise up. Because yes we are next.

You have no illusions about the fact that you are defenseless?

We have guns. Lots of guns.

Everyone needs to arm themselves and train.

>For the record, and I know I'm not the first to say it, this woman committed NO crime.

>Ozturk

The state rests it's case.

>She wrote something the administration didn't like.

What was written?

Yes.

America has always been more or less of a fascist state, and this is not new activity, although it is worse and more brazen in a lot of ways. Civil Rights for ethnic minorities has always been pretty iffy.

30% of the country loves this shit, and another large fraction doesn't even know it's going on. A lot of us are working to try to change things. The media is not covering all of the demonstrations, but we definitely need more people to get angry.