As Europe criminalizes environmental protest, some activists turn to sabotage

that'd be win-win

_Direct democracy_ on the other hand, is democratic. There is no question about that, no matter if one likes it or not.

If mass media defines/makes/shapes the public opinion, and mass media is owned by few. Isn't any democracy becoming kind of an oligarchy then?

Of course. In this case, it refers to _representative democracies_ and it is totally debatable how democratic they are.

_Direct democracy_ on the other hand, is democratic. There is no question about that, no matter if one likes it or not.

"Democratic" is a relative term.

I'm afraid this is not only for the UK

In Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, the Netherlands and the UK, authorities have responded to climate protests with mass arrests, the passing of draconian new laws, the imposing of severe sentences for non-violent protests and the labelling of activists as hooligans, saboteurs or eco-terrorists.

the Guardian, Oct 2023

You might want to check out this report from Climate Rights International, Sep 2024. This one is not only talking about europe.

CRI CLIMATE PROTESTERS REPORT | On Thin Ice - Disproportionate Responses to Climate Change Protesters in Democratic Countries

Ok, what is it then?

Nah. There’s more to it than just this nicely sounding sentence

It's pretty hard to have a good discussion if you're evaluating comparisons against standards that are not relevant to the point being made. My point was not to say that the climate crisis is as unimportant as needing to wear a colander; my point was that "it doesn't work" is a bad argument, because you can also use it to justify something as ridiculous as wearing a colander.

I'm all for better climate policy, but "because peaceful protest doesn't work" is a pretty bad justification. My peaceful protest to mandate wearing a colander in public won't work, but that doesn't mean that violent protest is justified.

Equating the climate crisis to forcing people to wear a colander is beyond braindead.

Indeed, this is an important point, when talking about violence, he talks mostly about attacking equipement owned by fossilf-fuel companies so mostly *victimless violence* not about performing a Luigi Mangione

Now that you mentioned it, here is a link for the book and the audiobook

I think that's the spirit of the text, but he's very careful not to actually call for violent protest. Instead, he repeatedly just says that it should be considered for obvious reasons. The text has a "won't someone rid me of this meddlesome priest" effect. Regardless, he makes a compelling argument and the violence he considers is purely against property and not people so, unless you're a property fetishist, the degree of violence being considered is nothing compared to the violence of climate change.

I'm all for better climate policy, but "because peaceful protest doesn't work" is a pretty bad justification. My peaceful protest to mandate wearing a colander in public won't work, but that doesn't mean that violent protest is justified.

Granted, I haven't read the book, so it might make a more nuanced argument.

A stronger argument is that you need to have a free and democratic opportunity to provide input. This is an easy case to make e.g. for slaves, or people under an apartheid regime. It might be possible to make the argument when it comes to e.g. multi-national companies having outsized influence on legislation, or other countries in which you can't vote instating policies that affect you.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

If the police is though on *peaceful protestors* they'll turn into violent protestors.

it's funny because last month I've read Malm's *how to blow up a pipeline* a book where, *considering that peaceful actions doesn't work* he calls for violent protest regarding climate.

I mean yeah, if protesting peacefully is also gonna be illegal, you might aswell get some real work done.

When you criminalise protesting only criminals will protest.

I was pleasantly suprised it wasn't the EU, rather UK. I mean sucks for the UK protesters but still glad it aint us.

Near-dupe that was also posted today: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/mar/08/a-new-phase-why-climate-activists-are-turning-to-sabotage-instead-of-protest

Anyone thinking this is noble should instead get to the front and sabotage the russian stuff

Annoying.