Trump, Vance Clash With Zelensky During White House Meeting

well this is how we feel about americans in the rest of the world, for a lot of decades now.

You must not been paying attention your whole life then

Of course the burgerking can fire his lackey

Yeah I feel really bad for the guy.

Majority of people who voted. That is not the same as the majority of eligible voters nor is it anywhere near same as the majority of Americans.

Also, if it were a Dem Pres, we'd have more or less the same outcome just less crass and with more political theater/obfuscation.

@tazzy@lemm.ee

@NightOwl@lemmy.ca the "majority" actually voted for someone else or chose not to vote. Only ~30% support this circus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections

What do you think life will be like for the rest of the world if USA, China and maybe Russia are all allies?

I once again beg libs to actually learn about ww2.

I am once again begging liberals to learn any history other than WW2

You're confused as to which side is the aggressor in this war.

Spoilt westerners really do think it's just a tv show made for their entertainment and that real lives aren't on the line. "Isn't right", fucking hell, grow up.

And at what point will it be right? Ukraine is inevitably going to lose this war, prolonging the war only worsens the peace terms for Ukraine, this is pretty much a textbook sunken cost fallacy.

You're right. Ukraine will take Moscow any day now and then they can force Russia to surrender on their terms. They definitely won't just lose more ukrainian lives and territory.

One could say it is not "far right"

That's what they've been saying since 2014

Trump surrendered to Russia on Ukraine's behalf, that's not the same as "ending the war".

Exactly. I see i was downvoted, but my intent was that stopping the war now means stopping the war on Russias terms, which is not right.

I know what continuing the war means: more Ukrainian casualties and more Ukrainian territory lost.

lol yeah that's totally on brand

I've heard someone speculate he will remove tariffs if other country buy 100 year US bonds. This seems kind of plausible.

If the status of the dollar collapses a reserve currency then the US will absolutely be in trouble. I think it's going to be a little while yet before that happens, but I do agree we're starting to see some initial signs of the process starting.

The US according to Powell can't maintain this level of debt. Interest rates are high because nobody wants to buy US bonds, and you've got talk of BRICS ending trading oil in USD altogether. Its not like its just borrowed and the US has no repercussions, this is all future austerity.

You mean when Trump said it “would make great television?”

it's pretty clear that draft dodgers do not care about ukraine as it currently stands, why should they throw their lives for a national project that does not resonate with them?

Now you're getting it!

No, no. If arresting was "kidnapping", the US would have the largest number of kidnaps in the world.

It's not kidnapping because it's legal, lmao.

Oh its illegal where I live so I get to call it kidnapping

It's not kidnapping, it's law, like it or not.

But if you have a felon President, I guess law doesn't matter that much.

it's a reality, in all but name, and it's also a reality that this war no longer has a point without trump, forcing someone else to go die for it is beyond pointless or evil; it's worse than kidnapping.

I would love to discuss alternative realities, but I'm talking about the real world, where there's a draft, with consequences for dodging it.

So, no. By definition it's not "kidnapping".

It was kidnapping then and it's kidnapping now.

Do you support the Vietnam draft and oppose the protests against it or something?

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

Taking someone against their will and putting them in a cell that they can't escape sure seems to fit the definition to me!

whether or not you recognize authority committing the forced displacement of a human being against their will determines whether or not it is a kidnapping.

if we we're to end up with east-ukraine and west-ukraine as countries, the east ukrainians would probably classify them as abductions by west ukrainian forces.

The point is that it's not "kidnapping".

So they're kidnapping people that do not want to go to war, gotcha.

They are arresting draft doders just like the US did during their war on Vietnam.

and it was so unpopular for americans that it led to the end of the war rather than subject their population to this stort of treatment; a lot like ukrainians right now

he should just give everything to the Russian oligarchy, right?

He should not confine, terrorize and kidnap innocent people.

no one believes you

But I didn't say anything that needs believing, all of that are extremely well documented facts.

I have less respect than ever for anyone in that room.

You’re right, he should just give everything to the Russian oligarchy, right?

Just so you know, no one believes you. You’re only fooling yourself.

I am opposed to drafting just as much as any other but considering the country is under a war to essentially keep existing, there should not be any reason for those elegible to fight to run.

What is the option against an enemy that does not see this people as such, is known for butchering people in taken areas and that has made clear nothing besides total capitulation will suffice? Hope they will get bored and go away?

I keep seeing this complete lie of "kidnapping people" on Xitter et al.

They are arresting draft doders just like the US did during their war on Vietnam. It's not like they are putting people in black vans to Guantanamo.

You shouldn't treat politics as parasocial celebrity drama

His commitment to his people

Commitment to.. Continuing treating country as a prison and people as slaves who can be kidnapped off the streets and then be dent to death as a cannon fodder? I hope you will one day have a dictator with similar commitment to you.

It's really hard to think how this could've possibly gone worse. The whole thing started with Zelensky's offhand suggestion of trading Ukrainian minerals for US aid which backfired catastrophically. Trump, ever the opportunist, seized on the proposal like a shark scenting blood. He initially framed it as Ukraine having to hand over minerals for future support, which he quickly turned into a demand for repayment of the $300 billion already spent, retroactively recasting aid as a loan.

By floating the minerals idea, Zelensky handed Trump a rhetorical weapon that let Trump box Ukraine into a lose-lose scenario of either surrendering resources or admitting to owing an unpayable debt. Zelensky got accustomed to Biden’s blank-check diplomacy, and completely misread the room here. Now, Trump has the perfect excuse to cut Ukraine loose. He will say that Zelensky lied about his willingness to make a deal, that he doesn't appreciate US support, and that he was belligerent. The whole thing is an absolute debacle for Ukraine.

I have even more admiration for Zelenskyy after that. He kept his cool through their childish bullying, while respectfully maintaining his stance. His commitment to his people over his own ego made him the only adult in the Oval Office today.

This was humiliating for Americans. I would’ve been less embarrassed had JD started fucking the Oval Office furniture. Every member of Congress that stands behind this is complicit.

It was like a scripted show for everyone except Zelensky. Zelensky was railroaded and talked over. Belittled. This was an embarrassment for the US and humanity as a whole. It shouldnt have been televised. What a sad shit show.

So when trump says Ukraine has to make concessions to achieve peace... The first thing that comes to mind is that the allies did the same thing when the Nazis started invading their neighbors in the 1930s. Peace at any cost. It showed that all they had to do was threaten war to get what they wanted. In the end, the cost to stop them was WW2.

My point is that the aggressor must pay a steep cost and still not get what they want.

What a weird moment of pure media spectacle by two TV-actor-cum-presidents.

I hate being american right now

Dementia Trump seem to think he is still in the apprentice, you don't get to fire other sovereign nations presidents though.

Ending the war is good for all of you/us, I promise. Team Russophibia/Ukraine without US on board will end up worse than when US was setting you up on the team. At any rate, making better friends than Ukraine helps dealing with US.

"Time to end the war 1!!1!"

Said by brain dead comments that don't inlcude what that means.