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French intelligence: China used embassies to undermine sales of France's flagship Rafale fighter jet

c/europe · u/HowRu68@lemmy.world · 101 points

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Findings from a French intelligence service seen by The Associated Press say defense attaches in China’s foreign embassies led a charge to undermine Rafale sales, seeking to persuade countries that have already ordered the French-made fighter — notably Indonesia — not to buy more and to encourage other potential buyers to choose Chinese-made planes. The findings were shared with AP by a French military official on condition that the official and the intelligence service not be named.

Add: I don't think the ploy worked, as in 2025 Indonesia ordered more Rafales and subs from France.

Comments

u/HowRu68@lemmy.world · 5 points

>The whole article is very entertaining.

Yup , "something funny" is going on,

as Inspector Clouseau would say.

I was just checking about the clash and found this article and quote:

" According to a source within French intelligence quoted by CNN, at least one Rafale fighter jet was reportedly shot down by the Pakistani military during the clashes on the night of May 6. We reached out to the French Ministry of the Armed Forces, which said it did not want to comment on “rumours".

TLDR: the source here is again the French Intelligence, while officials didn't want to comment on rumours.

u/jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 4 points

Rafale, not Rafael. Rafale means gust of wind or burst of fire, Rafael is a male first name.

u/SebaDC@discuss.tchncs.de · 2 points

Yeah... So?

What China is doing is literally the game.

People who criticize whey China did, don't seem to understand what Realpolitik is 🤦🏻‍♂️

I'm the 1st one to criticize China. But for things like genocide, persecution, etc.

u/plyth@feddit.org · 1 points

>Whataboutism can provide necessary context into whether or not a particular line of critique is relevant or fair. In international relations, behavior that may be imperfect by international standards may be quite good for a given geopolitical neighborhood and deserves to be recognized as such.

In this case the neighborhood is the world.

u/Melchior@feddit.org · 8 points

This is also done today, but more importantly: Why does it make anybody a cunt? Embassies are meant to promote one countries interest in another country. Military sales are certainly part of that. They do not seem to have bribed anybody or something like that, otherwise it would be part of the article.

u/SebaDC@discuss.tchncs.de · 3 points

Ah! Yes! Europeans totally stopped doing it. Wink wink.

Total gets juicy contracts in Africa and Latam, just because they are the best. Wink wink.

Back to China. It's more like "we, Europeans, made the rules of the game. Stop beating us at it! 😭"

u/Melchior@feddit.org · 3 points

This is not just economic, but also defense related. As in whoever supplies the jets, can withhold spare parts and ammunition deliveries. That obviously is strong leverage.

u/jenesaisquoi@feddit.org · 0 points

Ah yes, the "Europe was a cunt in the past so now everyone gets to be a cunt" card. Classic.

u/HowRu68@lemmy.world · 8 points

Well, I get your gist. Funny how this action in this 2025 world seems more " sane", probably true.

Though we don't know yet what kind of diplomatic pressure was used ( eg. ask The Philippines about greyzone pressure).

I also find it noteworthy that this info was only to be disclosed without mentioning which intelligence service was the source, and the headlines read " French intelligence ".. But, I'm not expert.

u/splendoruranium@infosec.pub · 16 points

Good!

As in: I approve of the concept. I hold this to be an acceptable way for modern countries to undermine each other if they desperately feel the need to. Economic pressure, back-room dealings, information campaigns... all much better than having hapless 19-year olds lob grenades at each other.

Not so keen if it's only done in *addition* to and not as a replacement for military buildup and sabrerattling though...

u/SebaDC@discuss.tchncs.de · 15 points

Isn't that precisely one function of embassies? As in, the way Europeans have been using them to expand economically for centuries?

u/Saleh@feddit.org · 12 points

The whole article is very entertaining.

Basically at least one Rafa~~e~~le in service by India got shot down by Pakistan in the recent clashes. Pakistan and China have jointly developed the J10 fighter that is in service by Pakistan and presumably shot down the Rafa~~e~~le.

Now China tries to convince potential buyers to not buy from France anymore, claiming China's equipment to be superior and of course undermining France influence in the region.

The interesting question for me is, whether the information about China capitalizing on this situation was given to the AP by the French intelligence, or whether it was leaked against their will. If it was leaked against their will, that raises the question about their security.

If it was given to the AP on purpose, which i find more plausible, that is a bit pathetic as they feel that calling out China publicly for being mean to them would be the best way forward. If they want remain on top with selling their jets, the French should rush to improve their jets.