Eurovision accused of ‘encouraging manipulation’ after Israel’s near-win [Spains RTVE and Flemish VRT demand investigation into voting system]

Honestly, at this point it might actually do the US some good when state governments weren't elected by their own population, but the population of all the other states.

That is a lie on part of the ESC, it's been documented and until recently was still up on their website that they booted Russia because it invaded Ukraine. When asked why Israel was allowed to participate in 2024, they came up with this explanation and changed their story re: Russia.

Being very pedantic, small parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan _are_ within the commonly agreed borders of Europe (the Georgian parts that fall on the Terek river basin and the Azeri Quba-Xaçmaz region)

I see, thank you for the explanation!

Brilliantly for us in actual Europe, they compete under the rule that should they win, the competition will still be hosted here in Europe. They have to pay for it, but we don't have to get up early to watch it.

I am just waiting for the day, Australia wins and everybody in Europe has to watch the ESC in the middle of the day

Yeah one day I ended up playing soccer for the Austrian soccer team because I went through the wrong door and didn't want to let anyone down

Eurovision is huge in Australia. People get up in the middle of the night to watch it. So in 2016, the contest's 60th anniversary, they allowed Australia to compete for funsies.

Everyone agreed they understand Eurovision perfectly so they were allowed to stay.

We were mistaken as the entry for Austria and nobody wants to admit that mistake

Israel is a member of the EBU (European Broadcasting Union), which organizes the song contest. This is also why geographically non-European countries like Azerbaijan and Georgia can participate.

It cannot be explained by putting politics aside. Having Israel be there is in itself a political choice.

Australia is an even a weirder choice.

This comment is really nice summation of why Israel are still in the ESC, but Russia were booted.

Tl;dr: Israel's national broadcaster is still (kinda) independent, so the European Broadcasting Union are keen to protect that. Russia's national broadcaster has been entirely subsumed by Putin's government, so no longer fulfills the requirements of EBU membership.

Same applies to football (soccer), the Israeli teams cannot play against their neighbors for obvious reasons unless it's a World Cup match. Those clowns should make peace.

My spouse and I watched it last year and even voted for it. I think it was our first year watching it live? Anyway, we were getting ready to do the same this year until I saw the video I linked in the grandparent post, like the day before the event. That woke me up to the fact that it had already been fucked up the year before too, so we decided to skip it.

Confession: I actually watched the ESC this year despite my moral qualms. Sorry.

But it really struck me how fake it has become. The "performances" in the final were just recordings of the ones shown in the qualifying rounds (probably weren't even live then). Words said by performers at the end of the song were chopped off. At the end when they showed clips of the performances with the performers in the "green room" reacting to them, pretty sure these were the same shots they used in the qualifying rounds. No continuous shots connecting the presenters to the performances. Every element of the show compartmentalized and combined using stock shots to fill in the gaps. Doesn't even resemble a live show. I wonder how much of this is required to ensure that nobody says anything about Israel, or shows or wears any unauthorised symbols, and that any undesired crowd noise can be edited (sounded like that happened when Israel phone vote was announced). Fucking weird.

Of course the ludicrously high phone vote for Israel was expected. But what is the deal with Switzerland's entry getting zero phone votes? That was really strange. Maybe the organizers agreed to donate all Switzerland's phone votes to Israel.

Anyway, the whole thing is so fake and fucked up, I won't be watching again. I feel sorry for the performers and the countries who try to contribute something good, it's just wasted on Eurovision.

There's already an American Song Contest, and no one has heard about it or cares about it.

Oh I'm sure, but it seemed like a different beast. American Idol was really tuned into the characters and personal drama, there was never that much meta-drama. Almost like the Super Bowl vs. World Cup

Well... They had Madonna on some years ago and that failed spectacularly when she lip synced the entire act...

I don't think Eurovision would work with America in it because of American exceptionalism. That's why you'll stick to your national song contests.

I haven't watched it the last few years because I can't stomach the idea that a genocidal state is allowed to compete :/

I love Eurovision but the EBU has made all the wrong decisions. They were even going to let Russia compete in 2022 after the invasion of Ukraine, until public outrage forced their hand. They claim the competition is neutral but guess what? Allowing Israel, a country actively committing genocide *who isn't even a part of fucking Europe* is a political statement whether you like it or not

All depends on taste, I guess. I enjoyed this year more and definitely wouldn't include Bambie Thug in the "good music" category, even if I enjoyed the performance

idk, this year was good.. it introduced me to Katarsis, Lucio..

I love it. That week is a highlight in my year, where I can watch some fun performances and shitpost about it all on Mastodon. It’s great fun.

And yes, the competition is political by design, but that’s part of the fun. Imagine my shock when hearing that Cyprus gave Greece 12 points. Again. But the way Israel fuck it about every year really sours the whole thing.

Absolutely, a lot of people watch it as entertainment. For myself and the people I know it’s crazy, campy and funny entertainment first, a singing competition second and politics etc. a distant third.

I also watch it as a 20-odd year old straight man alongside my wife, encouraged by myself. (sexuality added due to common stereotypes). I find it entertaining; most singers this year used their native language and there's a fine variety of songs with some bangers from otherwise unknown artists, like the Italian representative.

I personally hope Israel will be banned next year and MoroccanOil removed as a sponsor. It grosses me out and I don't think I'd watch it next year

For the most part it can be great entertainment and i used to enjoy it for many years. Thinks started to become slightly weird for me, when i learned about the regime in Azerbaijan and not remembering anything to that extent being said in the mainstream media in Germany (or at least that i noticed) when it was there in 2012. Then things got more weird as Russia had annexed Crimea but was still allowed to participate, with there being some mention of it at least.

So i remember many years where politics did not play as much of a role and the "drama" was about the acts themselves or the national preselections. The preselections are always a drama in Germany as the German broadcasters work hard to get the most bland, boring and forgettable acts on instead of having any chance at winning.

It is a lot of fun, if it isn't tainted by criminal regimes using the stage to get legitimacy. In that sense ignorance can be a bliss and i don't know if i was just blissful because of that in the earlier years or if there was "a good old time".

I didn't know who Maneskin was until they won Eurovision, so I'd say so

2024 had a slew of great bands (bambie thug, joost, nemo) but this year was a little slim (tautumeitas is great but I probably wouldn't put them on for a road trip)

Remember how big American Idol was? How many careers it launched? How many spin offs it spawned?

Americans would eat that shit up if we were involved.

Clearly you aren't taking it serious enough

Only for stupid people who complained about "voting blocks" and "eastern european votes" and stuff like that. Some people take the ESC way to serious.

Lmao, it has always been about politics, not the songs. Which is why Ukraine won when the war escalated. Which is why Israel almost winning looks suspicious as fuck. The public doesn't like them right now, no matter how hard they try to spin it PR wise.

What?

Eurovision has always been political

And in so many cases it is really senseless stupid. It's fucking Eurovision. It's a silly, but entertaining show, but some people really take it too serious.

Israel is currently starving 2 million people to death and openly advocating for genocide and ethnic cleansing. It is unacceptable to give them a stage and legitimize them that way. If it was Russia still allowed to participate in Eurovision we would have the same outcry.

What do you mean by everything? This is pretty specific. About a specific thing.

If Israel were not present or a potential issue they wouldn't be mentioned here.

The results of the public votes were FAR too suspect for it to be anything other than vote rigging on Israel's part, a charm offensive to counteract the literal genocide they're carrying out.

Everything _is_ about Israel. They are destroying our species. Ignore what they are doing at your own peril, friend.

To add to your No 1:

I've heard from other people (who don't use a good AdBlocker) that they got shown ads for the Israeli song surrounding videos about Eurovision on YouTube. Someone also mentioned that in the ads he saw the song itself got advertised, it did not explicitly mention that it is a song from Israel. I use UBlockOrigin and therefore did not see these ads myself.

I don't care who does it - I think that blatant advertising should not be allowed. Other countries are already disadvantaged by the comparatively huge costs to partake in the song contest.

I did not watch (and haven't since 2023) and many others didn't either. I am a bit disappointed in us that we did not even reach you with our calls to participate in the boycott, that's our bad.

Yeah, it's pretty sad.

Maybe you're seriously overestimating the importance of your boycott?

2022 - 161 million views

2023 - 162 million views

2024 - 163 million views

Seems like your boycott has had no impact.

I'd understand that if it happened in one maybe two countries, but this happened across multiple countries where most people don't condone the actions of Isreal. I'm not going just believe that some kind of a perfect storm gave Isreal the most televotes.

Well, basically. It doesn't take more than, say, 8-10% of Dutch voters willing to vote 20 times to secure 12 points for Israel. The remaining people might be in staunch opposition but can't counter this unless they mobilise behind one particular country - and no regular individual cares about Eurovision that much.

Besides, far-right parties in Europe generally get between 20-45% of votes in all countries and these people usually support Israel and are all about identity politics.

I did not watch (and haven't since 2023) and many others didn't either. I am a bit disappointed in us that we did not even reach you with our calls to participate in the boycott, that's our bad.

Because any pro Israeli types voted directly for Israel,.and voted as. many times as possible in as many ways as possible. even if they were not watching it.

I did not watch (and haven't since 2023) and many others didn't either. I am a bit disappointed in us that we did not even reach you with our calls to participate in the boycott, that's our bad.

>People who oppose Israel's participation didn't watch and didn't vote.

Why would people not watch? Do you think Israel has such a huge influence on people that they'd outright ignore watching the show? I would argue that's not a factor because there were people in the arena who booed Israel. They paid money to see it live. I didn't like Israel participating, I still watched it because Eurovision is not about Israel.

Even if they did vote, their votes were spread across dozens of other candidates.

That's a roundabout way of saying you think Israel's song was popular among people. I'm supposed to believe Netherlands, who just had a massive protest about Israel, gave maximum points to Israel? Norway, who is known to be pretty anti-Israel, gave almost max points to Israel? Same with France, UK etc. Countries that have polls showing the majority being against what Israel is doing turn around and give max (or close to max) points to Israel? How? Why?

I would think the very people who watch and participate are exactly the ones who would oppose Israel. It’s a very woke broadcast.

Got any sources that don't include your orifices?

I would not go as far that manipulation is the only reasonable explanation. Certainly Israeli lobby groups will have mobilized their people to vote extensively as participation in international events and the image of strong support are crucial for claiming legitimacy. As the article discusses the system of allowing up to 20 votes per number is favoring the ferverous.

There is three considerations from my side that i think need to be cleared:

1. There is allegations that Israel used targeted ads on social media to encourage people to vote. Imo. this should be banned and lead to disqualification if true, especially as the EBU keeps emphasizing that ESC would be unpolitical. Having a state or state aligned actor push adds for voting is an obvious contradiction. (leaving all the other obvious ones aside for the moment)

2. It must be laid open, how many "original" votes where cast for each candidate in each country and how many were multiple votes. This mechanism should be tossed out anyways. Someone willing to spend more money does not make his or her vote worth more than anyone elses. There remains the issue of multiple phone numbers per person, but that only gets amplified by allowing 20 votes on each of these phone numbers.

3. It mus be analyzed if there was direct manipulations and fake votes. If that turns out to be true, that should also be a disqualification and multi year ban for the participating broadcaster. This should be separate from questions of exclusion that should be mandated by the actions of the countries.

People who oppose Israel's participation didn't watch and didn't vote. That alone will have had an influence on the result. Even if they did vote, their votes were spread across dozens of other candidates.

Edit: I should've been more precise and said "many people". Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose.

That's how it works in a vote. You have 24 countries. Votes are spread across all of them. It doesn't require more than maybe 10% of the vote for one country to get 12 points. With some mobilisation by stupid Israel-supporters and targetted ads by Netanyahu and his crime gang, it's not that urealistic to get max points, even if the last 90% of potential voters hate the regime.

Once again Italians are precursors, we were rigging Sanremo phone votes WAY before anyone thought of Eurovision

In a time of mass manipulation, propaganda, and war, I am skeptical of phone votes that can be automated via en masse bought SIM cards and a bit of software.

yeah it's all about that sweet sweet cash. I don't quite understand how such a minor cosmetics company is able to afford such a big sponsorship for that many years. You'd think L'Oreal or similar international brands have this kind of marketing budget.

i thought that the song Israel competed with is good music, the singer is talented, and in a vacuum it deserves being around the top, but the whole backstory of sending a survivor of the music festival attack that initiated the war just makes it unpalatable.

letting them take part in the competition is also a huge additional stress for security, logistics and broadcast, to avoid physical attacks (several were thwarted during the israeli performances), avoid props like palestinian flag (like when the icelandic band brought one in rotterdam), booing (like in malmö where they had to introduce a delay to be able to remove anything from the final signal)... all that trouble must still be worth it.

It seems like such an easy call - give anyone who might bring unnecessary political pressure a ‘time out’. Could keep it entirely neutral like that if they wish to appear above the fray.

Would be better than what they did as allowing Israel this year can easily be seen as a very political endorsement.

The trouble is, of course, that the primary sponsor of the competition is Moroccanoil: an Israeli firm.

They're much worse.

Eject Israel from the EBU, they're not better than Russia at this point.

I was wondering about the result because the politically situation always influences voting behavior for the ESC.

Israel is currently not very popular (and for good reason) so I would have expected that they come in last yet they obliterated everyone else in the audience vote (just like they illegally obliterated Gaza).

This did not add up and manipulation was the only reasonable explaination

Politics aside, can someone explain to an American why Israel is in it? Kinda seems weird to have a non-European country in Eurovision.

Relevant video: 8 Ways Eurovision Is Rigged for Israel

I got many YouTube ads telling me to vote for her song up to 20 times (ads didn't mention Israel, just name and song)

It's obvious that it has been manipulated as you don't go from #14 to #2 overnight with votes evenly spread around many countries, especially when the song is not a hit

They intentionally chose her, because being a survivor of that terrorist attack, they can push the "see? Hamas bad, they killed 1000 innocent Israelis"

Every year Israel gets millions of votes that don't match the song listening stats

Shout-out to people who still think that the Eurovision is not rigged.

Still watch it though.

near win? i haven't watched in a while but with all the protests i thought they'd get 0 points like UK usually would.

~~did the voting system change or something?~~

edit: nvm i read the article. good job on the broadcasters raising questions.

Unrelated, but I like how the ESC supposedly has a better voting system than the US

Forgive my American ignorance, but do people actually watch Eurovision as entertainment? I feel like I've only ever heard of it as an arena for politics/protest/controversy, never "hey listen to this great song that won". Is the controversy part of the draw?

As a Canadian I did get into Eurovision at a point. Some of those acts go fuckin hard. However, I could not care less about this bullshit. Make music, not business, and you get good music.

Just make the voting pricier and donate all the proceeds to the UN.

Some people somehow make everything about Israel, it is tiring